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Author Topic:   God created evolution
Larni
Member (Idle past 185 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 4 of 118 (572301)
08-05-2010 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by kanedotca
08-05-2010 7:20 AM


That's all well and good but it turns the idea that Yahweh is omniscient and omnipotent on it's head. If ToE and evolution are part of a reality made by Yahweh then he must have known exactly what he was doing and how it would turn out from the get go.
Any thing else and you would be redefining your concept of Yahweh to fit in with science.
Not very devout.
Welcome to EvC.

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Larni
Member (Idle past 185 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 12 of 118 (572695)
08-07-2010 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by GDR
08-06-2010 8:03 PM


The fact that species become extinct is pretty compelling evidence that evolution is not guided.

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 Message 11 by GDR, posted 08-06-2010 8:03 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by GDR, posted 08-07-2010 10:35 AM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 185 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 19 of 118 (572784)
08-07-2010 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by GDR
08-07-2010 10:35 AM


The obvious answer to 'how's that?' follows thusly:
If the designer designed the organism it (the designer) must have either a: designed it to become extinct when the environment changed or 2: did not for see the environment changing and the organism becoming extinct.
We know things become extinct. So a designer must be continual designing new organisms to replace those that have become extinct.
Therefore the logical conclusion is that the designer is rubbish at designing things (apart from living fossils [score one for the designer]).
That fact that organism go extinct proves beyond all reasonable doubt that if there is a designer he is rubbish at design.
Rather than adding a designer into nature Occam's razor would suggest that a rubbish designer is an extraneous variable.

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 Message 20 by GDR, posted 08-07-2010 9:21 PM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 185 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 21 of 118 (572841)
08-07-2010 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by GDR
08-07-2010 9:21 PM


You commit the fallacy of ignorance. The universe is indeed amazing. But science tells us how it works. To ignore the words god has written in the rocks and scaler fields of reality (which we can measure) is surely a sin?

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 Message 20 by GDR, posted 08-07-2010 9:21 PM GDR has replied

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Larni
Member (Idle past 185 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 44 of 118 (573012)
08-09-2010 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by GDR
08-09-2010 11:34 AM


The reason my evidence supports 'no designer' is that the 'designed' species keep dying off, through out history. Indicating that if they were designed they were design to fail.
This could mean the designer may have been short sighted. But this is contradicted by the bible.
Yawheh is not short sighted. He's knows and can achieve anything. He does not make mistakes.
Unless you are saying the 'designer' (i.e. Yahweh) only makes organism to last for a while, then for them to die off.

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 Message 41 by GDR, posted 08-09-2010 11:34 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by GDR, posted 08-09-2010 1:43 PM Larni has replied
 Message 48 by nwr, posted 08-09-2010 2:10 PM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 185 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 51 of 118 (573025)
08-09-2010 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by nwr
08-09-2010 2:10 PM


Given the thread title "God created evolution" it seems inappropriate to assume that species were divinely intended to be permanent.
Fair point.

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Larni
Member (Idle past 185 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 52 of 118 (573027)
08-09-2010 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by GDR
08-09-2010 1:43 PM


Even if I agree that there were mistakes made it still isn't evidence that there is no designer. A bad design is still a design.
This is where I get confused. My understanding of Yahweh is that he is perfect. He should not make errors and the fact that most organisms are now dead indicates that they were not made to match the needs of their environment.
My thoughts are that if our world was designed I would expect to see no extinct species. As we do see them, I see this as evidence against design.
I did try to pick an evidence that was not open to 'that's evidence of design, too'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by GDR, posted 08-09-2010 1:43 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
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