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Author Topic:   Terran non-human intelligence
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4964 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 8 of 14 (573913)
08-13-2010 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dexx
08-12-2010 1:08 AM


As others have pointed out, quite a lot of other species use tools. However, these are extremely limited in comparison to the complex tools developed by humans, and the way it has allowed us to manipulate our environment.
It is no matter of chance that it was a primate species that evolved the tool making/using ability. The dexterous hands that were necessary to climb trees and pick fruits, etc, were ideal for adaptation to tool making and usage. (The hands hardly needed adaptation at all, it was the brains that really adapted to take full advantage of this.)
Most other types of species would have to adapt their bodies to such a large extent in order to become great toolmakers/users that it is unlikely it would ever be an advantage to them to make the transition. They are not really equiped to even begin using tools, so there would never be an opportunity to start evolving in that direction. They are already too well-adapted for their own environment that it would be a disadvantage to start evolving towards anything like dexterous hands.
Dolphins and whales, for example, are very intelligent animals, but they have evolved to lose the legs of their land-based ancestors. To survive in their environment, it is clearly an advantage to them not to have limbs that are anything like capable of making/using complex tools.

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Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4964 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 12 of 14 (573976)
08-13-2010 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by caffeine
08-13-2010 9:36 AM


There is nothing preventing other animals from becoming just as good at manipulating their environments, though. Raccoons have independently evolved dextrous hands very similar to those of primates, for example.
Yes, there are a few other species with dexterous hands or other organs (such as tentacles) that I suppose could have the potential to evolve in this way. I just think it was most likely to be a primate as they are by far the most common type of animal with dexterous hands.
The point I was making was that a species is far, far more likely to develop a complex toolmaking ability if it comes "ready made" to do so. Our ancestors could still use their hands for the original primary survival purpose of picking fruit, etc, while they gradually developed the use of tools. Whereas almost all other species would have to make a massive physiological transition to develop any kind of dexterous organ. And of course every stage of that transition would have to be advantageous.
Also, of course, it requires other factors such as whether or not the whole physiology of the particular species, not just it's dexterous organ, is appropriately adapted to make good use of tools (e.g. a throwing arm) and whether or not it's environment lends itself to the use of tools.
I'm sure you've seen people on TV without working arms who've impressed with the intricate tasks they can accomplish using mouths and or feet. These are people born into a species which normally relies on their hands, and yet they're capable of learning, with practice, to do many of the same things without. In a species which never relied on hands, there's no reason they couldn't manage to accomplish complex tasks of tool-making and tool use.
Sure, some people can develop a few amazing skills without their hands, but generally they are still very limited. In the natural world if you don't come with a physiology that is "ready made" to make tools, it will take so long to make or use anything useful, that the time and effort would be a hinderance and provide no advantage. There would therefore be no evolution in that direction.

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Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4964 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 13 of 14 (573981)
08-13-2010 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Blue Jay
08-13-2010 10:57 AM


Bluejay writes:
So, it seems that there are two ideas as to what is required for technological intelligence:
The Brain-First Hypothesis: increasing intelligence took advantage of whatever manipulatory organs it had available to it
The Hands-First Hypothesis: the dexterity of the manipulatory organs promoted the evolution of intelligence.
I understand the predominant theory amongst anthropologists now is that toolmaking in our ancestors developed a long time before our large brains.
Page not found | Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science
There is evidence for tool use at least 3.4 million years ago, whereas I understand brains significantly larger than a chimpanzee's didn't develop until around 2 million years ago. It appears that brains developed to take advantage of tool use, rather than the other way around. This fits with the argument that we needed to develop the various tools and skills for hunting and eating large quantities of meat to get the energy and protein etc needed for large brains, before we actually got those large brains!

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