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Author Topic:   Conservative = Christian?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 51 (574777)
08-17-2010 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by misha
08-17-2010 11:47 AM


Re: Meaning Of Conservative
misha writes:

How badly did you fail US History and Government?

The founders did not start a pure republic or a pure democracy. They started a Representative Democratic-Republic. The original intent was to take pieces of the early Roman and Greek political systems and create a balance.

Misha, sir/mam, did you fail English? Representative and democratic, as you used them, serve as adjectives to describe the noun, REPUBLIC, in your sentence. I learned that much as a little kid in a little grammer school in a little town in Wyoming some sixty some years ago. They founded a republic, the representives of which were democratically selected by the people by vote. Get it?

Don't put words into my message. I did not say that the Republican Party existed at the founding. My clear implication was only that the Repubican Party was the party of a republic and not of a democracy.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 5972
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 17 of 51 (574798)
08-17-2010 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dr Adequate
08-17-2010 7:43 PM


Re: Meaning Of Conservative
Dr Adequate writes:
Did anyone get it?

I laughed, and I gave you a high rating on that post.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 51 (574800)
08-17-2010 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by nwr
08-17-2010 9:09 PM


Re: Meaning Of Conservative
nwr writes:

I laughed, and I gave you a high rating on that post.

Did you consider the phrase "have emerged into" in your assessment of Adequate's response? I'm not sure he noticed it, or am I missing something here? Clue me in on what I missed so I can join in the frivolity. It appears that it doesn't take much to amuse some folks.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

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jar
Member
Posts: 33899
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 19 of 51 (574802)
08-17-2010 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DC85
08-16-2010 10:42 PM


meanings of words
DC85 writes:

One thing that's been on my mind lately is the shift in thinking in what the word Conservative means.

It certainly has changed. BUT... I don't think that is the issue. You do get close to the issue in the next section...

DC85 writes:

It seems to me he was talking about his Christian views and not Conservatives.

Today terms like socialist or conservative or liberal or Christian have nothing to do what the terms meant in the past. They have become little more than Buz words, meaningless crap used for driving the emotions of the non-thinking citizenry. Christian means the far right wing anti-science reactionary groups that during the late sixties and early seventies decided to take over a political party, first the Republican Party in the late 70s and more recently the Tea Party.

These folk are not really Conservative, more reactionary fascists in nature, nationalistic, reactionary religious, looking to model society on a corporatist model. The coup was successful and they were able to get the crook and traitor Ronald Reagan elected.

The terms today mean nothing. Conservative or Christian just means good; Liberal or Socialist just mean bad. Like I said, nothing but sloganeering.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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nwr
Member
Posts: 5972
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 20 of 51 (574807)
08-17-2010 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Buzsaw
08-17-2010 9:37 PM


Re: Meaning Of Conservative
Buzsaw writes:
Clue me in on what I missed so I can join in the frivolity.

It ought to be pretty obvious.

You misspelled "tenets" as "tennants" in Message 3.

The response:

Dr Adequate writes:
If those are the tenants of the Republican Party, does that make them the lessor of two evils?

Here "lessor" was used as a response to "tenant", but it was used in pun, to sound like "lesser" and thus keep the response on topic for the thread.

I had a good laugh. You probably won't, because it isn't funny if it has to be explained to you.

Buzsaw writes:
Did you consider the phrase "have emerged into" in your assessment of Adequate's response?

That phrase was not in the reply that stimulated laughter.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 5972
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 21 of 51 (574809)
08-17-2010 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
08-17-2010 9:43 PM


Re: meanings of words
jar writes:
They have become little more than Buz words, ...

This is becoming quite the thread for jokes.

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jar
Member
Posts: 33899
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 22 of 51 (574810)
08-17-2010 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by nwr
08-17-2010 10:42 PM


Re: Meaning Of Conservative
But "emerged into" is certainly worthy of a chuckle.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 51 (574814)
08-17-2010 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
08-17-2010 9:43 PM


Re: meanings of words
jar writes:

liberal or Christian have nothing to do what the terms meant in the past. They have become little more than Buz words, meaningless crap used for driving the emotions of the non-thinking citizenry. Christian means the far right wing anti-science reactionary groups that during the late sixties and early seventies decided to take over a political party,

Oh. So then, why do so many who cite Christian violence and attrocities here at EVC do so in reference to the bloody inquisitions of the RCC popes and bishops. Certainly it can't be about modern evangelical Biblical fundies who follow the non-violent tennants of Jesus and his apostles. They simply argue, "Christianity has a history of violence." Athiests and skeptics have done this to the term Christianity for as long as I can remember.

Christians, by and large do politics lawfully by the rules. They don't have bullys at the polls with clubs to intimidate like some do and they don't advocate an open borders felon voting and a whole lot of other devious tricks, etc to generate votes like (ahem) some do.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 08-17-2010 9:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33899
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 24 of 51 (574815)
08-17-2010 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Buzsaw
08-17-2010 11:00 PM


Re: meanings of words
I'm sorry but what does any of that have to do with my post?

In case you are confused about what I posted, here it is.

quote:
Today terms like socialist or conservative or liberal or Christian have nothing to do what the terms meant in the past. They have become little more than Buz words, meaningless crap used for driving the emotions of the non-thinking citizenry. Christian means the far right wing anti-science reactionary groups that during the late sixties and early seventies decided to take over a political party, first the Republican Party in the late 70s and more recently the Tea Party.

These folk are not really Conservative, more reactionary fascists in nature, nationalistic, reactionary religious, looking to model society on a corporatist model. The coup was successful and they were able to get the crook and traitor Ronald Reagan elected.

The terms today mean nothing. Conservative or Christian just means good; Liberal or Socialist just mean bad. Like I said, nothing but sloganeering.



Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 51 (574816)
08-17-2010 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by nwr
08-17-2010 12:25 AM


Re: Meaning Of Conservative
nwr writes:

Since 1980, the conservatives have been working to destroy the status quo.

How so?


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Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Coyote, posted 08-17-2010 11:23 PM Buzsaw has replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 1342 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 26 of 51 (574820)
08-17-2010 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Buzsaw
08-17-2010 11:06 PM


Re: Meaning Of Conservative
nwr writes:

Since 1980, the conservatives have been working to destroy the status quo.

How so?


The real conservatives, ala Barry Goldwater, are for small government, military strength, and fiscal responsibility.

The recent batch of conservatives, the social conservatives, are entirely different. They are largely evolved from southern Democrats, and seem to want to impose their religious views on everyone else by political means. They are certainly not for small government and fiscal responsibility.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 288 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 27 of 51 (574821)
08-17-2010 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Buzsaw
08-17-2010 11:00 PM


Re: meanings of words
Certainly it can't be about modern evangelical Biblical fundies who follow the non-violent tennants of Jesus and his apostles.

You're overgeneralizing --- Christian tenants are a diverse bunch. As Jesus said, "In my Father's house are many mansions".


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lfen
Member (Idle past 3914 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 28 of 51 (574832)
08-18-2010 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Buzsaw
08-17-2010 11:06 PM


Re: Meaning Of Conservative
Buz, I'm jumping in on your question but this isn't directed specifically at you. It is rather my statement on this thread.

I know a student of C.A.Bowers ( http://www.cabowers.net/ ) I couldn't find the quotes on his website but I will put forth another way of thinking about conservatism based on this student's years with Bowers.

Conservatism is an approach to life that considers how a change will effect not just our lives but the lives of our children and their children for many generations. Change is understood as risky and not undertaken for immediate gain. There are Christian conservatives such as the Mennonite and Amish. Indigenous peoples are conservative. The native Americans lived sustainably on this continent for thousands of years.

The imperialist who are mining the resources of this planet and destroying the environment and destroying the native peoples have usurped the name conservative. Bowers names them "market liberals". The European values of exploitation and individualism along with the claims of their superiority are not conservative values. The so called conservatives of say the Republican party (the Democratic party is scarcely better) are involved in the destruction of the environment and of the genuinely conservative indigenous cultures and traditions.

Though is is possible to be conservative and Christian most Christians aren't conservative. The dominant western industrial culture of materialism and greed has become just too ingrained in society and many Christians now embrace it as if it is the very thing their God has desired for them.

My view is that the only true conservatives are the dwindling numbers of indigenous peoples, a few other social groups along the lines of the Amish, and the handful of dominant culture radicals who see that the very basis of civilization is a reckless revolutionary disregard for the environment, the needs of people, and the consequences of their culture of materialism.


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Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3879
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 29 of 51 (574836)
08-18-2010 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by lfen
08-18-2010 2:14 AM


Conservatism vs. conservationism
It sure sounds to me that you are confusing conservatism with conservationism.

quote:
Not to be confused with Conservatism.

quote:
The conservation movement, also known as nature conservation, is a political, environmental and a social movement that seeks to protect natural resources including plant and animal species as well as their habitat for the future.

This may or may not be on topic.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


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lfen
Member (Idle past 3914 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 30 of 51 (574840)
08-18-2010 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Minnemooseus
08-18-2010 2:40 AM


Re: Conservatism vs. conservationism
My concept of conservative includes conservation but goes way beyond it. I am making the point that the idea that in the USA republicans are conservative is misleading.

Truly conservative societies exist. I'll mention Ancient Futures: Learning from Ladakh, Message from the Heart of the World, and Derrick Jensen's book The Culture of Make Believe.

Market liberals and their imperialistic exploitation of the planet is a problem not only because of the environmental degradation they are implementing, but the social degradation that results from an emphasis on individual rights of one lifetime vs. the need for a society to consider all it's members including children, grandchildren, and so on for generations. These market liberals are continuing to destroy genuine conservatives like the Kogi, Ladakh, indigenous peoples everywhere. They are driving Mennonite and Amish farmers off their lands. The market liberals worship of money and corporate wealth results in severe injustice to people. This is why I cringe to hear people like Bush, Reagan, Cheney, etc. called conservative. They are imperialists and market liberals for whom money and power justify anything and they make decisions based not on what is good for everyone including our unborn but on how much wealth it affords them in their present lifetime. This is not how conservatives operate and it is just wrong for them to get away with claiming to be conservative when they are the enemies of the real conservatives often driving them off their lands so they can exploit oil or mineral wealth or for some other selfish get rich while leaving a mess for others for who knows how many generations. These are not responsible or caring people. They are dangerous and their attempts to deceive us by calling themselves conservative needs to be exposed.

Edited by lfen, : corrected typo "if" to "it"

Edited by lfen, : corrected a noun by adding "s" as it should have been plural.


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