Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Landmark gay marriage trial starts today in California
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 121 of 759 (573865)
08-12-2010 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by hooah212002
08-12-2010 10:15 PM


Re: Appeal or not?
I just read that marriages will be allowed at 5pm, Aug 18th.
Not necessarily. The Proponents of Prop 8 have the opportunity to ask the Court of Appeals for a stay, and I'd be surprised if they didn't ask. However, I think it unlikely that the Court of Appeals would grant that stay because it's unlikely that the Proponents have the right to appeal.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by hooah212002, posted 08-12-2010 10:15 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 122 of 759 (574620)
08-16-2010 10:27 PM


First step in the appeal process
The Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has granted the Proponents' request for a stay pending appeal, at the same time establishing an expedited schedule for briefs and set oral argument for the week of December 6. The court also ordered both parties to brief the issue of whether Proponents have standing to appeal, citing Arizonans For Official English v. Arizona, 520 U.S. 43, 66 (1997). In that case, the Court discussed the standing of a group of citizens who sponsored the ballot initiative that was at issue.
A copy of the Order in Perry can be found here.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Stile, posted 08-17-2010 12:02 PM subbie has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 123 of 759 (574710)
08-17-2010 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by subbie
08-16-2010 10:27 PM


Re: First step in the appeal process
Um... perhaps you can inform me a bit more because I'm legally stupid. Wait... that didn't come out right. I'm stupid when it comes to legal terms and phrasing...
Yeah, anyway:
This is my stance:
-I don't think this roller-coaster ride is going to end until it goes to the Supreme Court
-I think the Supreme Court is going to decide in favour of equal rights for everyone (pro-gay-rights or whatever).
-Therefore, I want this gay-rights issue to go to the supreme court as soon as possible
For me, then... is this granted-appeal a good thing? Is this one-more-step getting it closer to the supreme court?
Or is it likely I'm going to have to wait longer... likely years?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by subbie, posted 08-16-2010 10:27 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by subbie, posted 08-17-2010 12:30 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 124 of 759 (574714)
08-17-2010 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Stile
08-17-2010 12:02 PM


Re: First step in the appeal process
I read something yesterday that puts a different slant on it that makes a certain amount of sense to me.
As I described earlier, this appeal might be dismissed for lack of standing. If it is, obviously it won't go to the Supreme Court. Or, if it does, it could well be decided there on the basis of standing without ever reaching the merits of the case. In other words, there's a good chance the ruling at the district court level will remain undisturbed without an appeals court deciding whether Prop 8 is constitutional.
If that does happen, we will have to wait for another case to work its way through the court system before the Supremes have a chance to rule on it. The suggestion I read yesterday was that that might not be a bad thing. If the trend is in the direction of increased recognition of gay marriage, and there is more support for it, politically as well judicially, it might make it easier for the Supremes to rule in favor of it.
Although we like to think that the federal courts are insulated from politics, and to a degree they are, most judges are aware that the courts have to tread very carefully. The best example of what I'm talking about is Brown v. Board of Education. Wiki has a pretty good write up of the politics in the Court behind getting to a unanimous decision. The Justices knew that there would be widespread resistance to desegregation, and Chief Justice Warren in particular worked very hard to make sure that the opinion was unanimous to increase the force behind the decision.
It goes without saying that there will be widespread resistance to acceptance of gay marriage. It will be easier for the Court to rule in favor of gay marriage if there has been more movement politically and socially in the direction of accepting it. Of course, if you don't think that we seem to be moving in that direction, then the sooner it gets to the Supremes the better.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Stile, posted 08-17-2010 12:02 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 759 (574848)
08-18-2010 4:51 AM


With regard to the Prop 8 case,
i talked about this here:
Forbidden

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by subbie, posted 08-18-2010 9:58 AM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 127 by Theodoric, posted 08-18-2010 10:04 AM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 128 by jar, posted 08-18-2010 10:09 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 126 of 759 (574894)
08-18-2010 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by archaeologist
08-18-2010 4:51 AM


That's nice.
Now run outside and play, the adults are talking here.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by archaeologist, posted 08-18-2010 4:51 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 127 of 759 (574896)
08-18-2010 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by archaeologist
08-18-2010 4:51 AM


Spam??
Isn't this spam?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by archaeologist, posted 08-18-2010 4:51 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 128 of 759 (574899)
08-18-2010 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by archaeologist
08-18-2010 4:51 AM


In support of archaeologist
Okay, I read your monologue.
Let me see if I can accurately summarize your position.
You still believe homosexuality is wrong and that same sex marriages are somehow not real marriages but realize that what other folk do has no bearing on what you do. Is that a fair summary?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by archaeologist, posted 08-18-2010 4:51 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 129 of 759 (574900)
08-18-2010 10:11 AM


Please.
I'd really prefer not to fill this thread up with his irrelevancies.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 130 of 759 (576882)
08-26-2010 9:20 AM


I lost respect for latino and black communities
Woke up this morning and what did I hear? Predominantly black and latino counties in California are fighting to keep prop 8.
At least white people have an excuse to be bigots. They've been bigots since god smiled on white people ages ago. But all these communities who have been subjected to ongoing prejudices have absolutely no excuse to turn around and discriminate others.
Actually, I'm going to start openly support changing the constitution to fight anchor babies. If they want to play this game, I'll play with them. Let's crack down on illegals. Let's require everyone carry around their papers so that we can pull over all the ones who look like they might be illegal.

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by nwr, posted 08-26-2010 9:42 AM Taz has replied
 Message 132 by hooah212002, posted 08-26-2010 9:47 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 134 by ringo, posted 08-26-2010 11:23 AM Taz has replied
 Message 154 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-27-2010 10:14 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 159 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 4:41 PM Taz has replied
 Message 160 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 4:42 PM Taz has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 131 of 759 (576885)
08-26-2010 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Taz
08-26-2010 9:20 AM


Re: I lost respect for latino and black communities
Taz writes:
Woke up this morning and what did I hear? Predominantly black and latino counties in California are fighting to keep prop 8.
I am not sure why you find that a surprise, nor why you find that a problem.
Taz writes:
At least white people have an excuse to be bigots.
That seems too simplistic.
To a large extent, what you are seeing has to do with ignorance. Ignorant people are more likely to cling to superstitions from the past. It isn't news that there is more ignorance in black and latino communities. The reasons for this are complex, though some of it is due to discrimination against these groups that has reduced their educational opportunities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Taz, posted 08-26-2010 9:20 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Taz, posted 08-26-2010 7:25 PM nwr has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 132 of 759 (576887)
08-26-2010 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Taz
08-26-2010 9:20 AM


Re: I lost respect for latino and black communities
Predominantly black and latino counties in California are fighting to keep prop 8.
I don't mean to sterotype, but aren't those communities also largely religious as well?

Your god believes in Unicorns

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Taz, posted 08-26-2010 9:20 AM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Huntard, posted 08-26-2010 9:52 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 133 of 759 (576890)
08-26-2010 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by hooah212002
08-26-2010 9:47 AM


Re: I lost respect for latino and black communities
hooah212002 writes:
I don't mean to sterotype, but aren't those communities also largely religious as well?
Yes, which is why I find it absolutely not weird that they are in favour of prop 8.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by hooah212002, posted 08-26-2010 9:47 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 134 of 759 (576902)
08-26-2010 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Taz
08-26-2010 9:20 AM


Re: I lost respect for latino and black communities
Taz writes:
But all these communities who have been subjected to ongoing prejudices have absolutely no excuse to turn around and discriminate others.
They're human, aren't they? Discrimination is a human characteristic, not a race-specific one.

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Taz, posted 08-26-2010 9:20 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Taz, posted 08-26-2010 7:18 PM ringo has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 135 of 759 (576993)
08-26-2010 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by ringo
08-26-2010 11:23 AM


Re: I lost respect for latino and black communities
ringo writes:
ey're human, aren't they? Discrimination is a human characteristic, not a race-specific one.
(1) You people have spent the last year trying to convince me there's no such thing as race.
(2) I didn't say latinos and blacks. I said latino and black communities. In other words, if 70-80% of their members support something, I think it's safe to say their community supports it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by ringo, posted 08-26-2010 11:23 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by ringo, posted 08-26-2010 8:04 PM Taz has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024