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Author Topic:   Why prefer the Biblical creation account over those of other religions?
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 146 (575008)
08-18-2010 5:27 PM


Let’s say for the sake of argument, Evidence is found that proves Darwin wrong. How do you know that the Biblical account of creation is the true story, and not the accounts told by the Shinto and Hindus (Both of which are living faiths) for example?
if you are still on the board, i would like to see links please.
oh and darwin was proven wrong long ago.
But that would need to involve presenting creation science claims and then examining and discussing them. Which would necessarily include why they are so incredibly false.
and whatis wrong with that? if evolution were true, you should not have to worry about it being taught for it would easily be refuted, but as it stands it is evolution which is easily refuted.
The Bible has no issues with evolution
good thin you are not a translator for you would be wrong. Gen. 1:30 puts evolution in its place, it does not exist.
and it is not '6 periods' they were 6 actual 24 hour days as the usage of the 'evning and morning' clarify the time frame.
the stars and sun existed before the earth
this would be wrong.
science doesn't know what it is talking about when it comes to origins.
Where is the historical evidence?
read Gary habermas' The Historical Jesus

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by bluescat48, posted 08-18-2010 11:16 PM archaeologist has replied
 Message 19 by Larni, posted 08-19-2010 5:57 PM archaeologist has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 17 of 146 (575134)
08-18-2010 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by archaeologist
08-18-2010 5:27 PM


oh and darwin was proven wrong long ago.
Oh really by what and by who?
KJV Gen 1:30 writes:
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Where doe the above passage mention anything that could be inferred that anythig about evolution is true or false? There is nothing inthe passage that has anything to do with evolution.
Edited by bluescat48, : missing ""
Edited by bluescat48, : missing "

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by archaeologist, posted 08-18-2010 5:27 PM archaeologist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by archaeologist, posted 08-19-2010 5:33 PM bluescat48 has replied

  
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 146 (575365)
08-19-2010 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by bluescat48
08-18-2010 11:16 PM


cherry picking/

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by bluescat48, posted 08-18-2010 11:16 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Coragyps, posted 08-19-2010 6:38 PM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 21 by bluescat48, posted 08-19-2010 6:55 PM archaeologist has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 185 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 19 of 146 (575368)
08-19-2010 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by archaeologist
08-18-2010 5:27 PM


Missing the point
I think the point of this thread is to ask people why one should chose Christianity over any other religion. The OP seems to take it as red (for the purpose of discussion) that naturalistic explanations for reality are not true and that some form of supernatural explanation for reality exists.
Don't get hung up on ToE as it is ruled out by the premise of this thread.

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 20 of 146 (575377)
08-19-2010 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by archaeologist
08-19-2010 5:33 PM


How, archaeologist, is it "cherry picking" to look up the Bible verse YOU supplied, post it, and observe quite accurately that it doesn't address evolution? Don't quote/cite it here if you don't want it subjected to at least a sideways glance from someone?

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 21 of 146 (575382)
08-19-2010 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by archaeologist
08-19-2010 5:33 PM


cherry picking/
How is pointing out that your passage doesn't reflect what you said it does. What do you think? Do you think we Atheists don't own and read the Bible? If you post somethig, be prepared for someone to comment on it.
Edited by bluescat48, : mye typonh

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by archaeologist, posted 08-19-2010 5:33 PM archaeologist has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1046 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 22 of 146 (575470)
08-20-2010 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by MacCullock
02-02-2007 12:49 AM


The uniqueness of Christianity
Christianity is unique in the way it spread in the face of persecution.
This is obviously untrue. Religious persecution is common, and has been for a very long time. New faiths are often seen as challenges to established power, and clamped down upon forcefully if there are mechanisms in place to do so. Despite this, many survive.
For a contemporary example, look at Falun Gong. The faith is only 18 years old, and for most of that time has been banned by the Chinese government and its practitioners persecuted - many are sent to prison, and key figures are tortured and executed. This has done nothing to halt the spread of the religion - if anything, it has in some ways enhanced its reputation. It has become a symbol for many of opposition to the Chinese Communist Party.
Religions perservering, and even thriving, in the face of persecution is fairly common, so you can't argue this as relevant to the truth of Chirstianity.
What other religion commands that we love our enemies (Matthew 5:43)?
"Revere your enemies as you revere your parents." - Gautama Buddha
That lusting for a woman is adultery (Matthew 5:28)?
Lust is a target for plenty of religions. From the Bhagavad Gita - "It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material mode of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring sinful enemy of this world."
These are not unique prescriptions of Christianity at all, but even if they were, it's hard to see why having a few unique features makes any religion moe convincing. I'm sure every religion has something unique about it, as could plenty of fictional religions I could make up. This wouldn't make them more likely to be true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by MacCullock, posted 02-02-2007 12:49 AM MacCullock has not replied

  
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 146 (575647)
08-20-2010 5:10 PM


you people never even consider the fact that the devil has initiated false religions that somewhat copy what takes place against and inside christianity,inorder to confuse those who reject the truth.
when moses and aaron were before the pharaoh, aaron throws down his staff and it bcomes a snake...like wise so do the magicians of pharaoh's court. yet that is as far as the copying could go for aaron's snake ate the others showing its superiority.
Ex. 7:8-13.
so there are false religions out there that get persecuted, back in the 1800's the north american indians used to promote a spiritual dance that was outlawed by the u.s. gov. people inpower do strange things whenthey think something is going to be subversive to their rule.
muslims are being tortured for their terrorism activities, christianity doesn't have a monopoly on being persecuted.
one chooses the biblical accounts over all the rest because it is the only true ones out there and they do so by FAITH. that is the key to the equation. secularists only look for physical evidence but that physical evidence is limited and faith is always going to be the key.
no other way to put it.

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 5:19 PM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 08-20-2010 5:20 PM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 26 by bluescat48, posted 08-20-2010 6:12 PM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 27 by Nij, posted 08-20-2010 11:03 PM archaeologist has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 24 of 146 (575652)
08-20-2010 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by archaeologist
08-20-2010 5:10 PM


It's unlikely Moses or Aaron ever lived and the Exodus saga was written to be a serial like the weekly Mack Sennett comedies at the movies and today's soap operas. Each segment ended with a cliffhanger so that the story teller got to spend the night and fed the next day. No one minded that the God described in the story was evil and downright nasty because they understood it was a fable.
BUT, that has nothing to do with the fact that there is no Biblical creation myth, rather there are several mutually exclusive myths and they are all factually wrong.
And that is true of both secularists and theists, particularly the vast majority of Christian churches.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by archaeologist, posted 08-20-2010 5:10 PM archaeologist has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 25 of 146 (575653)
08-20-2010 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by archaeologist
08-20-2010 5:10 PM


archaeologist writes:
you people never even consider the fact that the devil has initiated false religions that somewhat copy what takes place against and inside christianity,inorder to confuse those who reject the truth.
And you never even consider the possibility that your religion could be the false one created by the devil to confuse you and make you reject the truth.

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 26 of 146 (575666)
08-20-2010 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by archaeologist
08-20-2010 5:10 PM


one chooses the biblical accounts over all the rest because it is the only true ones out there and they do so by FAITH.
Which shows that it may be truth to you, but it does not make it true to all. Your faith is not shared by all. You, like me, may have been indoctrinated into Christianity as a young child, but some of us chose to investigate the stories and draw conclusions from the stories and any evidence for or against, not from some person telling me what the story says.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by archaeologist, posted 08-20-2010 5:10 PM archaeologist has not replied

  
Nij
Member (Idle past 4911 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 27 of 146 (575752)
08-20-2010 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by archaeologist
08-20-2010 5:10 PM


Tu quoque (one that isn't fallacious)
you people never even consider the fact ...
And you people never seem to consider the facts
  • that your entire religion is based on a book with only tangential connection to history, and largely full of myth;
  • that when those myths are tested by rational people including a huge number of people who believe the same book just as much as you do they are invariably found to be untrue regardless of what prejudice may have been involved;
  • that when presented with these findings, your first response is to judge and exhort everybody for bias, dishonesty and "being tricked by Satan" in spite of your precious book telling you not to do these things; and
  • without ever presenting your evidence beyond "Bible says this" to reject any of the data provided.
    one chooses the biblical accounts over all the rest because it is the only true ones out there
    No, they do so because Loki thoroughly enjoys playing tricks on people and messing with their heads. It is his official job, after all, and he has been practising for centuries to get that good at it.
    Now, got evidence to invalidate that (beyond your faith, because that's predictable enough as to be boring)? Didn't think so. Me, I'll stick with you being irrational and inconsistent.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 23 by archaeologist, posted 08-20-2010 5:10 PM archaeologist has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 29 by archaeologist, posted 08-21-2010 3:26 AM Nij has replied

      
    Nij
    Member (Idle past 4911 days)
    Posts: 239
    From: New Zealand
    Joined: 08-20-2010


    Message 28 of 146 (575753)
    08-20-2010 11:04 PM


    To everybody else...
    Why is the troll still being fed?

    Replies to this message:
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    archaeologist
    Inactive Member


    Message 29 of 146 (575791)
    08-21-2010 3:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 27 by Nij
    08-20-2010 11:03 PM


    Re: Tu quoque (one that isn't fallacious)
    #1 i am not a troll. just because you do not get the answers you want to hear doesn't mean i am a troll but that is a label you use to get rid of the truth.
    #2
    And you people never seem to consider the facts
    we always consider the facts, they just over-rule secular science's rules.
    that your entire religion is based on a book with only tangential connection to history, and largely full of myth;
    first off, you cannot prove it to be a myth, you just want it to be one. people have been saying this for millenia and not one of them has ever produce the evidence that demonstrates that false accusation as fact. if it were a myth, then there would be real evidence and we would not be having this discussion.
    that when those myths are tested by rational people including a huge number of people who believe the same book just as much as you do they are invariably found to be untrue regardless of what prejudice may have been involved;
    how can you test historical events? they are gone, done, over with? any event repeating those events today are false for they are not the true events and lack the orignal conditions toproduce them thus any finding against them would be false.
    that when presented with these findings, your first response is to judge and exhort everybody for bias, dishonesty and "being tricked by Satan" in spite of your precious book telling you not to do these things; and
    actually i can say those things. you need to hear the truth and if i do not say how will you hear it?
    without ever presenting your evidence beyond "Bible says this" to reject any of the data provided.
    i have presented evidence over and over but it is dismissed and not even discussed or considered. read through the threads i participate in. you will see the secularists change the subject so fast that it doesn't matter what i do. you all do not want to hear the truth.
    I'll stick with you being irrational and inconsistent.
    yet i am neither. what is more irrational: accepting a theory that has never been observed, constructed by humans and made famous by another one,. all it relies upon are assumptions, conjecture, speculations, hypothesis and which offers no hope, no love, no caring, no help, no security OR choosing to accept a elief that has been observed, recorded from ancient times, started by God who is the most powerful Being around, who loves, cares, protects, and offers security and so on?
    if you say the former then you are being very irrational and ignore your own needs.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 27 by Nij, posted 08-20-2010 11:03 PM Nij has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 30 by Nij, posted 08-21-2010 4:34 AM archaeologist has not replied
     Message 31 by jar, posted 08-21-2010 9:59 AM archaeologist has not replied

      
    Nij
    Member (Idle past 4911 days)
    Posts: 239
    From: New Zealand
    Joined: 08-20-2010


    Message 30 of 146 (575803)
    08-21-2010 4:34 AM
    Reply to: Message 29 by archaeologist
    08-21-2010 3:26 AM


    Re: Tu quoque (one that isn't fallacious)
    Constant repetition of claims known to be both false and aggravating? Ignoring the rules of every kind because "your truth is above secular science's rules"? Being unable to concede a point where you are obviously incorrect? No attempt to make real argument, just the aforementioned claims, ad hominem attacks and blatant proselytizing?
    Yep, troll.
    My needs involve being told the truth from someone who can demonstrate it is what they say it to be. Not from someone who can't consistently defend their own position using something outside their particular fantasy.
    There is ample evidence of those myths being just that: myths.
    Noah's ark/Teh Fludde, Exodus, young-earthism, Jeebus himself...
    FFS, did you even read the threads of this forum before posting on it? You might want to try them. Unless of course, "secular science" - by which you obviously mean "observable reality" - is still a problem for you.
    Accusing people of falsehoods, while providing an overwhelming lack of any reasonable support of such claims, is against the rules. Calling people followers of Satan or to imply we deliberately ignore anything we don't like. Doing both of these yourself (numerous examples all on this forum). I'm fairly sure the Bible says something about bearing false witness and loving enemies more than yourself...
    Historical events are tested by the evidence they leave behind and how well it lines up with multiple records. Given your allergy to science, however, I can see why the concept of evidence is a problem for you.
    Conditions can be replicated. You know, this being the same universe as existed 1, 100, 10000 years ago. That's how stuff works.
    You have presented no evidence in support of your statements when personally attacking anybody nor when trying to generally make your point. All of the "evidence" you tried was shot full of holes quicker than a target at the Olympics.
    What's more irrational: believing in a book written centuries ago by a simplistic desert tribe to justify their acts, or accepting the evidence for a basic observation in modern biology, one that can be tested in the most basic laboratories, and which makes no claim to cover something it does not attempt to explain? Yeah, about that.
    You could have saved a lot of posts from everyone if you'd merely shown up on each thread, posted "I'm a true believer, wrapped in my cuddly The Truth™ blanket, I think you lie about everything" and then left the more sensible people on this site to discuss things seriously.
    Don't bother replying without some new valid facts on your side; I'm likely to ignore any further preaching and harrasment. I suggest everybody else does the same.

    This message is a reply to:
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