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Author | Topic: Is Theistic Evolutionist An Oxymoron? | |||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Meldinoor's interpretation, then is that a "theistic evolutionist" is someone who believes that a God intervened in the course of evolution. Since "theism" means either "belief that there is a God or gods" or (when opposed to Deism) "belief that there is a God or gods who intervene in this universe" the term is clearly not oxymoronic on that count. On the other hand this same belief is very close to modern evolutionary theory (and none of the interventions need actually contradict the theory - they may simply guarantee outcomes which were possible but would not otherwise occur). Michael Behe as of his last book appears to follow a belief of this sort, although he does insist that certain evolutionary stages require divine intervention. So on this interpretation the term is not obviously oxymoronic, and is is certainly theistic. The more common interpretation is that the term refers to the belief that God set up the universe so that it's ordinary operations bring about the desired results. While this view is consistent with Deism it does not rule out intervention in human history so it cannot be said that it is opposed to theism. And it fully accepts evolutionary theory, so this reading is certainly not oxymoronic.
quote: I don't think that it is fair to describe even science as an ideology and to describe theism in that way is absurd.
quote: Both Meldinoor's reading and the more common reading would generally be accompanied by the view that the universe was created by (a) God. Meldninoor's reading might well include the view that the first life was created by God. Since neither point contradicts evolutionary theory we can see that the term usually refers to someone who DOES believe in a creator God. Since even the narrower reading of "theism" is not restricted to religions who consider the Bible sacred, contradicting the Biblical creation myths cannot be considered an issue. Even among Judaism, Christianity and Islam and their offshoots there are many who do not insist that those myths must be accepted as literally true (not least due to the clear contradictions between the two accounts). So your argument that the term is an oxymoron is based on the assumption that all theists must agree with your doctrines. That assumption is certainly false. Edited by PaulK, : Corrected a couple of typoes.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: For the purposes of defining "theist" and "theistic" "God" is a generic term. Thus, this is the only relevant part of your post and it concedes the point. The term "theistic evolutionist" is not an oxymoron.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I'm not a theist. I simply point out the fact that you were utterly wrong to suggest that "theistic evolutionist" was an oxymoron.
quote: In other words your problem is not with "theistic evolution" as such. Your problem is that you don't like Christians who take a different view of the Bible from yours. You would have done far better to actually start a topic on that rather than trying to argue that the term "theistic evolutionist" is oxymoronic. There is nothing, nothing in the term that ties it to Christianity at all. What is more you cannot assess another's interpretation of the Bible merely on the question of whether they accept the two creation stories in Genesis and try to harmonise them into a single account. If Christian, they might well believe in some of the Gospel miracles, for instance. Maybe even some OT miracles, too. And you're a fine one to accuse others of blasphemy when you regularly twist and misrepresent the Bible which you claim to be God's word (being most upset when others read it and find that it does not say what you claim) and even mangle God's very name. It seems that Ringo was entirely correct. Your real issue with theistic evolutionists is that they dare to disagree with YOU.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: You're the one who started this thread to accuse them of adopting a self-contradictory position. You're the one who classed their views as blasphemy, not me.
quote: Of course the creation accounts are obvious myths with their primordial ocean, geocentric cosmology, talking snakes and the like. The Flood and babel stories are obvious myths, too.
quote: I guess you left reason and logic at home again. Even if none of the few theistic evolutionists here said that they believed in any Biblical miracles it doesn't mean that all Christian theistic evolutionists deny all of the Biblical miracles. The fact that you can't remember such a statement isn't even a very good argument when it comes to dealing with those who DO post here.
quote: By which you mean that they are facts that have been demonstrated many times. And I can certainly provide proof of THAT. And if you are going to accuse others of blasphemy simply for taking a different view it seems rather relevant that you have no problem blaspheming yourself - or at least blaspheming by the standards you claim to believe in.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: He might IF he wasn't the one who started making accusations of blasphemy and if he didn't have a long record of misrepresenting the Bible. Unfortunately he did and he does.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: That's already been done. For all of them.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Yawn. I've refuted everything you've put up. It's all there in the threads. The threads that YOU challenged Jar to go and look at. And I'm ready to do it again.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: And yet you cannot defend even one. Your "thousands" apparently failed to equip you with even a single successful prophecy that you could defend. In fact, is it not the case that your preferred "experts" are people that many Christians would rightfully dismiss as loons ? The sort of people who promote nonsense like the idea that UPC barcodes are the "Mark of the Beast".
quote: Let us note that YOU are offering no more than bare assertions. And let it be noted that apparently your invitation to reopen threads - aside from being an attempt to shift the burden of proof - is apparently only open if we add "fresh evidence" - which we don't need to do. You claimed that there were successful prophecies. Your only support was to tell people to go digging in the archives. Something you are clearly not prepared to do yourself. Clearly you are hoping that an "open minded" reader will simply believe you instead of looking. So I think that it is worth pointing out the truth - that if they do look they will find you refuted again and again.
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