Is Theistic Evolutionist An Oxymoron?

Oh, you didn't see it.

Hi Meldinoor. Things have been well with me an mine. I hope so with you and yours as well. Thanks for weighing in here. I apologize for misspelling your username in the OP. I have corrected it.There are really a lot of you theistic evolutionists around. I've always wondered how you folks can possibly reconcile Biblical theism and evolution since if the Genesis record is mythical, so must the other tenets of Biblical theism also set forth in the same Biblical record be mythical. Conflated ideologies share some similar characteristics as I understand the term. What, pertaining to Biblical theism, shares characteristics with ToE? They appear to be oxymoronic, contradicting one another, the one advocating naturalistic secularism and the other advocating intelligent design and the supernatural. Shouldn't Biblical theism determine what premise you apply in determining interpretation of observed phenomena? The problem is that there is a whole lot in the Biblical record, from which I assume to be the primary source of your theism, besides morality and politics. It's allegedly the record of origins as per intelligent design rife with supernatural phenomena from prophecy to miracles, all oxymoronically contradictory to ToE and the BB etc. You're convincing yourself that they are compatable when they're not. you're deluding yourself by ignoring the contradictions which you appear to be sweeping under the proverbial rug, so as to hope for the blessings of Biblical theism while denying the majority of what the Bible contains.Theistic evolutionists appear to view life as a super smorgasboard of sorts, picking and choosing only what satisfies their preconceptions as acclaimed theists.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This is a strawman, my point being that the Biblical god, Jehovah is an intelligent designer, contradictory to the ToE.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

a. Your interpretation of christianity is contradictory to the ToE, not all interpretations.
2. Not all theistic evolutionists are christians.

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It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

It isn't a strawman. You used the word "theistic", which does not refer to the Biblical god at all. You can't redefine "oxymoron" based on a redefinition of "theistic".You might be able to claim that "Biblical evolutionist" or even "Christian evolutionist" is an oxymoron but not "theistic evolutionist".

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Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

Paul, you, Jar, Meldinoor and a host of other professing theist evolutionis all have the same problem. You all try to apply a pseudo-Biblcal theism, all the while denying everything supernatural in the record which happens to be most of the book, supernatural aspects being tenets of all 66 books of the Bible. You're all deluding yourselves into professing Biblical theism when in fact you insult/blaspheme Jehovah, the Biblical designer, reducing his holy book to the status of mythology.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Ringo, have you been reading me? All through this thread I have alluded to the term, Biblical theism.

What's really silly is to keep the ID Biblical record out of Biblical theism.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

What ToE goes against is Biblical theism as set forth in the Biblical record rife with ID and the supernatural.

Once again, what you post is simply not true. I do not deny everything supernatural in the stories that make up the Bible. Lots of the supernatural incidents mentioned in the Bible are things I cannot even have an opinion on, there's not enough information to confirm or deny. Others like the special creation stories in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 or the Biblical Flood or Exodus or Conquest of Canaan as described in Joshuah are patently false; simply myth and folk tales. But even if that happened to be true, it is irrelevant to the topic.Am I a theist? Yes!Do I believe that GOD created all that is, seen and unseen? Yes.Do I understand that the diversity we see around us is the result of the fact of Evolution and that the Theory of Evolution is not just the best explanation for the diversity we see, it is the ONLY model that has been presented? Yes!Don't think for a second that mythology isn't important, it is. In fact mythology can be more influential than factual history.And of course, Jehovah is nothing more than a human creation that resulted from spelling errors. To think otherwise is to blaspheme GOD and the Holy Spirit.Edited by jar, : appalin spallin and worsern gramer

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Nobody is doing that, as far as I know. People are only trying to keep ID out of the science classroom.

That's irrelevant. You still don't get to redefine words.What you're trying to say is that No True Biblical Theist can accept evolution - but that has nothing to do with oxymorons. An oxymoron depends on the real definition of the word, not your made-up one.Maybe you should rename the thread to reflect your No True Scotsman fallacy instead of your misunderstanding of oxymorons.

So why if a person chooses to accept that there is a god can't this person also accept evolution. Many Theists accept that the creation story in Genesis is no more than, at best, an allegory.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

I know I've posted this before but you might have missed it. I think you are trying to read holy scripture in a way that was never intended. The following is a quote from CS Lewis.

quote:

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Just as, on the factual side, a long preparation culminates in God’s becoming incarnate as Man, so, on the documentary side, the truth first appears in mythical form and then by a long process of condensing or focusing finally becomes incarnate as History. This involves the belief that Myth is ... a real though unfocused gleam of divine truth falling on human imagination. The Hebrews, like other peoples, had mythology: but as they were the chosen people so their mythology was the chosen mythology — the mythology chosen by God to be the vehicle of the earliest sacred truths, the first step in that process which ends in the New Testament where truth has become completely historical.

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Miracles Ch 15 CS Lewis

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Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

Not necessarily. Most people who have read the Bible will agree that it contains segments that are undeniably allegorical and/or mythical. That doesn't mean that it's all myth. Also, just because portions of the Bible may be legend and myth does not mean that they're less important than the historically accurate records in there. The Genesis account conveys God's role as the Creator of all that is, His relationship to humanity, our fallen nature etc. Even if the myth is not literally true, the underlying message is still there. I would argue that these lessons are far more important to the Christian faith, than the trivial details of how God went about Creation. But I was just saying that, to me at least, the ToE is NOT an ideology. It does not share "characteristics" with theism, because we're comparing apples and oranges here.
I'm tempted to quote Galileo here to make my point:

quote:

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The Bible teaches us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go

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Of course, the Bible teaches much more than just how to go to heaven, but it was never intended as a science book. To view it in that manner over-trivializes it and distracts from the more important lessons it contains. I'm sorry, but the truth is far too precious to me to make me want to twist the facts to fit a just-so interpretation of an allegorical text. If I espoused creationism I would be dishonest, as I can see no way to make the evidence fit your view on creation. And I would rather be honest and wrong, than dishonest and right.
If you could show me how all the evidence supported your "theory" better than the ToE, I'd come around in a heartbeat. But to consciously ignore the truth would be an act of dishonesty toward myself, toward God, and toward my fellow humans. Did I say I didn't believe in miracles? I do. In fact, I may even have experienced a few myself. And by the way, how is the creation of a universe with all the laws and constants capable of producing life less miraculous than a six day creation? Come on, Buz. I never said I didn't believe in a miraculous Creation. I just think that Creation was much grander and more in line with the evidence than your theory of creation. Be careful not to conflate evolution with atheism or secularism. I don't think the ToE is compatible with a literal reading of the genesis account. But when you read Genesis as an inspired myth, there are no longer any contradictions. All of the core tenets of Genesis are compatible with evolution. Let's take a look at them:1. God created everything (compatible)
2. God chose the human species to be made "in his image" spiritually (compatible)
3. Humanity fails to live up to God's standards (compatible)
4. God promises to redeem humanity (compatible)None of these are contradicted by evolution (they all fall outside the realm of modern science). Harsh and judgmental words, Buz. I think, if you carefully re-read our posts, you'll find that you've misrepresented us gravely. Understanding that parts of the Bible were never meant to be taken literally does not reduce it to a pile of horseshit. I have the same respect for the Bible that you do, but I worship God, not the Bible. Hence Christian, not Biblian.Respectfully,-Meldinoor