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Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Obama supports Ground Zero mosque. Religious freedom or is he being too PC? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
This should be an interesting thread, I think.
I've even heard my liberal friends saying we shouldn't allow it because the families of the 9/11 victims don't want it. The story:
Controversy swells as Obama supports Ground Zero mosque quote: Obama's main point is this:
quote: But critics have offered this in rebuttle:
quote: Personally, I could care less if a mosque was built on ground zero. I don't think ground zero is anything more that a piece of property where something bad happened once. This personal attatchment to this piece of land as some kind of representation of freedom and America, to me, seems rather pointless. It's terrible what happened to those buildings, and worse what happened to the people in them. But that's it really. Why the constant reminder of what happend that day and the treatment of this property as holy ground? Do we run the risk of turning ground zero into a quasi-Jerusalem? Seems like not allowing the mosque gives priority to the rights of Christians and Jews before the rights of the common citizen, be them from any religious or secular background. Thoughts? - Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
A friend of mine made a good point. While yes, there is freedom of religion and the mosque can't be stopped from being built, people are sensitive about it.
Now, asking Muslims to acknowledge this is the same as when they ask us (normal people) to be sensitive to their beliefs, such as, not showing an image of their prophet on TV. So I think they should build the mosque, but it would be awesome if across the street from the mosque someone built a giant poster of their prophet. Question is, would they accept someone doing that? - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
The sign seems to be solely to aggravate them. My point is that freedom is freedom, religious and speech. If they want religious freedom, then they can't get mad when someone is exercising freedom of speech. No one cares that they're offended, just as they don't care if the mosque offends others. Freedom is freedom. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined:
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Certainly freedom is freedom, and in the US someone would have the right to put up such a poster. I'd still consider that person to be an asshole though. But that's the question: do you think someone would be allowed to do it? They've censored every image on American TV, a highly doubt a poster would be allowed. Someone would point to the fact that it's offensive, but, when someone considers the mosque offensive the Constitution is thrown at them. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Should be allowed is one thing, but would they be allowed is my question. We've seen it censored on TV, what would suggest they'd allow a poster of it especially in front of a mosque.
- Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
You should be free to call your grandmother a fat, ugly old whore, but you should choose not to do it. Why doesn't that apply equally for the people wanting to build the mosque? Shouldn't they choose not to do it? - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
If they can find a company willing to rent space to assholes than where is the problem? Of course, companies don't have to rent space to assholes. I don't see how this addresses my point. The prophet has been censored on TV because it is offensive to muslims to show his image, however on the same show (South Park) they showed, I think, George Bush taking a shit on Jesus. In this situation, the mosque is considered offensive by MANY people. Rightfully so, they are still allowed to build their mosque. Freedom of religion protects them. But freedom of speech is ignored when the image of the prophet is concerned. It seems hypocritical. Why should we give a shit about how muslims feel when it comes to their prophet's image, but then they don't give a shit when it comes to the feelings of those who find the mosque offensive? - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I agree, but shouldn't the Constitution protect us both?
There are some who find the mosque offensive. There are some who find the image of the prophet offensive. But it seems like in the US the muslims and their feels are considered before the feelings of others for fear of, well, another ground zero somewhere else. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
It is no the government that stops tv from broadcasting images of the Prophet, it is corporate timidity. Agreed. But since it was American's insulting Muslims, Obama didn't speak up about it. He didn't make it a government issue, like he has in the case of the mosque.
If there is any hypocrisy it is not because there is any governmental restriction on freedom of speech. Right, but I just meant the way we favor one side's feelings over the other. There are people who sincerely feel the mosque is insulting, but we disregard those feelings in support of freedom of religion. I think Huntard is right in that we're just scared. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Also, it's not because it is offensive that they don't show it, it's because they're pussies who are afraid fucktards will do something to them if they do show it. Because those fucktards are offended. But yes, I agree 1000%. It's because we've become pussies. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
But no one has stopped the folk that are offended from speaking out. Where is the issue? The Muslims have a Constitutional Right to build the mosque. Folk have a Constitutional Right to speak out against it. Both rights seem to be supported and working just fine. I wasn't arguing that, I was just pointing out the insensitivity from the Muslims building it. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
No, you haven't seen in censored. Not in any way, shape, or form. Censorship is governmental restriction of speech. Censorship is not restricted to just the government, many news, radio and TV stations censor material that they don't want aired.
Do not confuse corporate spinelessness with censorship. But the corporate spinelessness resulted in Trey and Matt being censored by Comedy Central. Granted, it wasn't the government doing it, but I think that would still be considered censorship. At least that's what the news called it. - Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
What insensitivity? They are not sensitive to those who feel it's offensive. I agree that they shouldn't feel offended, but then again, I also feel Muslims shouldn't be offended by us airing and image of their prophet.
Honestly, all I have seen so far from those protesting the construction is utter ignorance of the facts. Agreed. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I see no indication that those building the place are insensitive. I don't see them saying that the folks that are upset should not speak out or that they don't understand that folk are upset. But that fact that they are building regardless of how others feel is them being insensitive. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Perhaps not insensitive, just arrogant. Ok, arrogant works too. - Oni
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