The Existence of Jesus Christ

Apothecus,You asked,

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Do you believe one who has never "known" God or accepted Jesus as his savior has not the ability to understand His plan for salvation, etc, etc...?

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Yes, I believe they do when the Father draws them to the salvation that's in Christ Jesus (John 6:44).

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Has one lost this understanding one once had as a believer, if one no longer believes?

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Yes, I believe they do because the Spirit of God may no longer be striving with them.

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Ah. So as ever, I won't get a satisfactory response. It seems to me to be a bit contradictory for the extremely devout (I'm not accusing you of this) I've come across to claim that those who haven't accepted Jesus as personal savior can't hope to understand, comprehend, or accept anything ranging from alleged biblical archeological "evidence" to examples of God's "Moral Code" in society. According to these folks, until you do so, a veil will ever obscure your view of the "real world."

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I probably will never be able to give you a satisfactory response as to why you turned from what you believed for 35 years. I will say this, you are by far the exception, not the rule. Many truths of the Bible can be clearly understood by both unbelievers and Believers alike, such as God's moral codes. But when it comes to understanding who God is, and entering into relationship with Him, it takes the "measure of faith" God has given to every man (Rom 12:3). I believe some reject this measure of faith in the beginning, and never look back. I believe others start down the journey of faith, and then turn back. You are by far the exception to have done this after 35 years.As I shared earlier, the experience I received after walking somewhat shakily with God for 20 years that made Him so real to me was the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Since then I have never doubted who God is or my relationship with Him. Does this mean my life has been all peaches and cream since then? No, it doesn't!

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"Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God." (Acts 14:22)

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I hope the veil that was lifted at the time of your deconversion provides everything you are looking for in this life.Blessings

jar writes,

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How did you test and confirm that it was the Holy Spirit and not an exceptional burrito?

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What does this have to do with the existence of Jesus Christ?

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2 Cor 3:17-18 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

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John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me."

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Some exceptional burrito our Lord is!!!

jar writes,

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First one was "How did you test and confirm that it was the Holy Spirit and not an exceptional burrito?"

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The second one was "What does this have to do with the existence of Jesus Christ?"

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(1) When the same thing happened to me as happened in Acts 2, then I know it was the Holy Spirit.(2) Since it was Jesus who received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit and then poured forth what happened in Acts 2, I know Jesus Christ not only exists, but that He is LORD! (Acts 2:36)Any more questions?

If you understood what happened in Acts 2 and how it's been happening for the past 2000 years to Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, you wouldn't be asking all these questions.My answers still stand!

The specific verses in Acts 2 that I was referring to are these verses,

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38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent , and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

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4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

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47 And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved .

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Since this has been happening to Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ for the past 2000 years, you may call it a "bum burrito," but Christians call it the existance of Jesus Christ who sits at the right hand of the Father doing this.Edited by John 10:10, : No reason given.

Once again you fail to understand what happened in Acts 2, especially these verses,

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38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent , and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

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4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

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47 And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

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I can only conclude that the Lord is not drawing you to His salvation.

You will have all the evidence you want when you stand before Him at the White Throne Judgment and confess that "Jesus Christ is Lord."

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Phil 2:9-11 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

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I have time and time again given you and others the reasons why the New Testamant passages tell the truth regarding the existence of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you keep asking time and time again for the reasons why the New Testamant passages tell the truth. Yes, there's a lot of circular reasoning going on here at the EVC Forum. If you won't go back and re-read my previous responses to this question, it simply means you can't understand my responses, and further explanations would not satisfy you either.PeaceEdited by John 10:10, : No reason given.

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But sadly, that is not the topic of this thread. You don't seem able to grasp that.

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This thread is about the historical existence of Jesus 2000 years ago.

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You keep posting about Jesus being real to you, now.
Nothing to do with the subject being discussed.

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Evidence for the historical existence of Jesus back then - is very scant. Would you like to talk about this subject?

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If it was just about Jesus being real to only me now, you would have a "lack of evidence case" that would stand up in court. But it's not about only me. It's about billions of believers during the last 2000 years that have experienced the reality of the living Christ living within our lives by the gift of His Spirit. The Jesus that lived then whose message is recorded in the pages of the Bibles we have today declared He would do certain things for His children both then and now. Unless you want to believe these billions of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ are living in deception, how else do you explain what is recorded in 1900 year old Bibles is still happening today?Yes, it's true, one of us doesn't seem to grasp that!