Landmark gay marriage trial starts today in California

I didn't say he didn't get turned over. But the process took years and years and years. By the time they were willing to put him on trial, he was already a dying old man. Hell if I know. Simply put, it takes years and years and years for these not-so high profile genocidal cases to go to trial. I'm sure those victims who suffered under these genocidal campaigs appreciate your defending these evil people and the very very slow and politically correct international process of dealing these things.Edit.Anyway, the above is off topic. I can understand that even though the latino and black communities are showing blatant bigotry you guys simply don't want to say it out of political correctness. It's understandable. It's also understandable that you guys are avoiding the 70-80% figure. It's completely understandable. You guys simply don't want to stir things up. Be all politically correct all you want.For me, it's different. When 70-80% of a community shows bigotry, there's something wrong. I'm not going to attempt to sugar coat it.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

So your attributing this all to "political correctness' is just a bunch of bullshit? Screw you. How am I defending them? I am providing evidence that you claim that there is some sort of political correctness run amok is a bunch of BS. I am not defending anyone.Do you always personally attack people that disagree with you or show that your argument is BS?

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

You conveniently left out the 70-80% figure from the latino and black communities. What happened to the old nem jug? You're all... politically correct nowadays.

the black communities and mexican communities jump off a cliff who hits the ground first?

By seeing nothing wrong with the current system of dealing with these genocidal maniacs. The fact that you think it's ok to let these guys live on for years and years until they begin to die of old age before any real trial is set bothers me. It literally takes half a life time for these cases to go to trial, and you see absolutely nothing wrong with this system? How is this not defending those bastards?

I don't know. Gravity works the same for everything, whether it's burrito or fried chicken.

Again no argument or evidence to defend your political correctnes bull. Just continued personal attacks. Do not dare to presume what I think. Show me how I have defended the current system. Show where I think it is ok for them to go unpunished. All I have done is question your assertion for "political correctness". Again show where I have stated this.You truly think every person in a NAzi uniform should have been executed?Please expalin this 'political correctness' you keep harping about. You don't even know who the "they" of your accusations is.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

There are ways one can state something and not have to say it out outright. From our discussion through many posts now, you've continually defended the system.But what I find more interesting is that you are all hung up on the off-topic bit of my outrageous statements. I just find it funny that you have steered clear of the latino and black communities issue and instead just pick on the off-topic bit. Is it because you know I'm right about the bullshitness of the latino and black communities and that you're too politically correct to say anything about it?I've already met several people who have taken the cop-out attitude to avoid the issue by saying we have to look at the individuals. Well, if 70-80% of the community at large has the same attitude about something, I think it's fairly safe to say that the community has that attitude.

Never have. I think you make very valid points about the black and latino communities. My issue is your overarching claim that some sort of "political correctness" is responsible for certain things. You are the one that pulled a godwin and brought out Nazi's. You are the one that brought up Pol Pot. You misrepresented both issues and were blatantly wrong.Am I bad because I expect you to defend your arguments. All I have gotten back since is personal attacks.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Wow, I take a week vacation and look what's happened to this thread. It began with one one comment relevant to gay marriage, but nothing to do with the particular topic of this thread, then degenerated into a lot of squabbling about race and racism in general.Please, before continuing in this vein, try to at least look like you're attempting to address this topic of this thread. Thank you.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas JeffersonFor we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- PhatIt has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

And you're accusing people of being politically correct?Latin and black communities, last I checked, were made up of blacks and latins... At least man up and blame who you want to blame. You pointed to some black and latino counties in California... how is that representative of all latin and black communities? Politically correct? Me? I'm not blaming the religion, I'm blaming the people who read a few words in the Bible and use that to justify their hate and/or disapproval of homo-sexuals. Especially homo-sexuals who want to get married.And that's not just Christians, Muslims do this too. Illegals can't vote, dude... So who cares what they think or disapprove of? They won't affect the outcome of any vote. By 2050 we'll out number the whites in the US, so I'd do whatever you want to do before then. It was called the 80's, pushed by Regan and his brain-washed conservative minions. Guess wha? We won!- Oni

Yeah, their communities that you have identified through race... Holy crap, you're a walking contradiction. Those same stats could be given to almost all societies, including Caucasian-Americans. Homosexual acceptance is still in its infancy. You can't just erase thousands of years of social mores in a day or even a decade. I don't know, should we ignore yours?

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

Taz, not all black and latino's are anti-gay. Why don't you reserve your criticism for the actual individual, as opposed to unilaterally removing your support of black and latino communities.

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

I could care less about what is politically correct. Political correctness is tyranny in disguise. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy in your logic.But it's like you have tiers of tears for the oppressed. Homosexuals are at the top of that list for you. All I'm saying is try looking at it from an individual point of view.I understand what you're saying, and to a degree agree with you. You're saying that it is bullshit to cry about equality all the while trying to deny that same equality to others. That's a valid point. The only problem is that you've gone from analyzing it from an individual point of view to a collective view.

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

It's not unfair. There's nothing wrong with stating the observed fact that 70-80% of people of specific racial backgrounds tend to vote a certain way on a topic.That's not the problem. The problem is that you've got this idea in your head that by actively voting agaisnt equality for those specific racial groups, you can somehow reverse their voting trend.That idea, Taz, is stupid. Extremely stupid. You know full well it's not going to work.Your stated goal is to work towards equality for homosexuals in America. By voting against equality for blacks and latinos, you will not gain a single vote. You will in fact be an example of racism within the equality-for-gays camp, and will drive votes away from your cause.What about the gay latinos and gay blacks? They can get married, but hey, let's segregate the schools by race?This isn't a war. You can't increase acceptance and equality through combativeness. All you'll manage to do is shift which lines we're using to separate ourselves. The solution to anti-gay-rights trends in black and latino communities is the same as it has always been in fights for equality: education and integration. Educate them on the similarities between the gay rights struggle and their own histories. Show them their own gay neighbors, who are really quite nice and decent people. Organize local rallies and hold them in the communities that vote against gay rights the most. Confront them with the people they're hurting, and tell them face to face exactly what it means when you deny them basic rights like marriage. Do so respectfully, even though bigoted attitudes deserve no respect, and don't condescend. The more you show people that their stereotypical bigoted views are wrong, the more hearts and minds you'll change. And don't forget the younger generation - you won't be able to change a lot of the older minds, but kids who grow up easily seeing the direct parallels between the gay rights movement and the racial civil rights movement will vote your way with much greater frequency.And, of course, get people to vote. Old people and people who are encouraged every week by their minister or priest to get out and vote will do so. It;s the younger voters, the ones who overwhelmingly support gay rights, that tend to just stay home on voting days.It's slow. It takes time. The civil rights movement has never been known for being a rapid process. Don't let your frustration make you hurt the very cause you support.