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Author Topic:   Harvard Researcher May Have Fabricated Data
Inactive Member

Message 22 of 65 (577712)
08-30-2010 7:18 AM

Hahaha...catching someone in science using unscrupulous and fraudulent tactics to gain academic noteriety is evidence for the ethical, and scrupulous culture of science. Wahahaha.

i just have to agree with this poster. it took students to complain, NOT real scientists nor did science say anything about it till then. even then it TOOK 8 YEARS to catch this guy. got to laugh at this one.

It would be nice if religion would shut down their charlatans, like faith healers Peter Popoff and Benny Hinn.

we already know that they are false teachers, as we do for all prosperity gospel evangelists. we are NOT allowed to 'shut them down' because of a few minor details called the Bill of rights, the constitution, litttle documents like that.

we have been speaking against them for years, warning people but guess what, people still have free choice. we are not allowed to infringe upon that, all you can do is do not send them money, do not attend their meetings and so on.

but here, your guy taught at harvard, for years and no one said a word. science fails big time--again.

there is no 'self-correcting' in science, they do not do anything till someone blows the whistle on them. you people love to delude yourselves.

by the way, the self-correcting format is alive and well in christianity as we flushed out (that isif you want to use secular science's idea of self-correcting) jim bakker, jimmy swaggert, ted haggerty to name but a few. christianity today has a few articles on one woman preacher right now who i snot inline with God's word. her last name is moore.

we have the guidelines, the criteria to flush these people out, science doesn't.

Inactive Member

Message 23 of 65 (577714)
08-30-2010 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Taz
08-29-2010 11:03 PM

It is impossible for any researcher to commit fraud without somebody blowing the whistle.

it took OVER 40 YEARS before someone thought that piltdown man was a fraud. no it is not impossible for any researcher to commit fraud. evolutionists do it every day.

if you think that the 'self-correcting' aspect of science is alive and well think again, the christian church has been detecting frauds for over 2,000 years. we can start with marcion to the gnostics and their books {collected in the nag hammadi library} on up further to the rcc when luthor exposed them and on up to the 21st century.

you guys do not hold a candle to the christian church.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Taz, posted 08-29-2010 11:03 PM Taz has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Huntard, posted 08-30-2010 7:36 AM archaeologist has not yet responded
 Message 32 by Taq, posted 08-30-2010 1:38 PM archaeologist has not yet responded
 Message 33 by Theodoric, posted 08-30-2010 2:31 PM archaeologist has not yet responded
 Message 35 by bluescat48, posted 08-30-2010 4:05 PM archaeologist has responded

Inactive Member

Message 36 of 65 (577832)
08-30-2010 5:19 PM

Nobody ever said it was.

yes someone did say it or it wouldn't have been quoted. i am going to have to change my quoting habits to make sure editing doesn't take place after i quote theperson.

No we don't, we're not creationists, afterall.

actually you do and creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong' and 'if any man bring a different gospel than the one Jesus and the disiciples brought...'

the most uneducated christian can detect fraud.

They are a part of the scientific community.

oh pulleeaasssee. that is stretching credibility beyond its snapping point.

students felt they were being pushed to reach a particular conclusion that they thought was incorrect

this doesn't cover up the fact that it still took 8 years and HOW MANY students accepted the conclusions and went along with their professor? thousands?

science has no morality, no superiority no higher moral code:

from may 2009--it took 12 YEARS to discover thisone


this one is on going


here is a interesting article


peer review doesn't as i have said before

from the article immediately above:

announced the retraction of over 70 peer-reviewed studies

here is a list of articles documenting scientific fraud


editorial accomplice


Scientific dishonesty in Journal editing :Scientific dishonesty in Journal editing Or, what can stop fraudsters (from the University of Nottingham, for example) when journal editors support them? www.talenco.info

then to continue your research at your leisure:


with christianity, people are allowed to start new denominations because true christian churches do not have the legal authority to stop them. any one who cites this as a fact that they keep practicing forgets the example of professor Hwang in Korea who was caught in fraud, lost his government position and funding but continued to do science in the private sector.

why didn't other scientists stop him and others who do the same? sorry but you have no argument.

Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 42 by Blue Jay, posted 08-30-2010 6:17 PM archaeologist has responded
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 Message 45 by bluescat48, posted 08-31-2010 1:00 AM archaeologist has not yet responded
 Message 46 by Huntard, posted 08-31-2010 1:48 AM archaeologist has responded

Inactive Member

Message 37 of 65 (577833)
08-30-2010 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by bluescat48
08-30-2010 4:05 PM

Yes that might explain why there are hundreds of Chritian denominations since each claims to be true. They can't seldf correct themselves so they start a new fallatious denomination. Tell me one Christian denomination that does not have flaws.

faulty logic. it isn't that they cannot self-correct, it is that they do not want to. the truth is there and they have free choice to follow the truth or not. GOD does not strong arm people into following Him. He leaves that up to a person's God given right of free choice.

If He strong armed all to follow His way, evolution would not be taught at all anywhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by bluescat48, posted 08-30-2010 4:05 PM bluescat48 has responded

Replies to this message:
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Inactive Member

Message 47 of 65 (577920)
08-31-2010 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Huntard
08-31-2010 1:48 AM

That's not a way to detect frauds

actually it is and we can do so without losing 8, 12, 40 years.

sorry but science has a long wasy to go before it catches up with christianity.

you all just do not want to admit that your precious scientific field is greatly flawed and cannot achieve what you all want. it is the blind leading the blind and your faith and hope in it is greatly misplaced.

why follow a field of study that is not for the truth and answers? God has the answers for everything and we do not need years to find them out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Huntard, posted 08-31-2010 1:48 AM Huntard has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 61 by Vacate, posted 09-01-2010 6:08 AM archaeologist has not yet responded

Inactive Member

Message 48 of 65 (577921)
08-31-2010 4:29 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Blue Jay
08-30-2010 6:17 PM

look you all are just making the same excuses you would not accept from a creationist or christian. stop embarrassing yourselves andjust admit the scientific field is not as great as you want it to be andnever will be because it is not immune to the sin and corruption that entered the world at adam's sin.

you have no defense for this has gone on for centuries and you never clean up the entire fieldor for that matter try to clean it up because your reputations, the money, the power is too great of a temptation that keeps you all from being honest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Blue Jay, posted 08-30-2010 6:17 PM Blue Jay has responded

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Inactive Member

Message 53 of 65 (577949)
08-31-2010 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Huntard
08-31-2010 4:39 AM

Say, somebody claims to have found evidence for the Exodus, yet he has fabricated (this means he made it himself, and it is thus not evidence for anything) this evidence himself. Say, a tablet with hyroglyphs that mentions moses, now this does not contradict the bible. If that is all the tests it has to pass to be said to be genuine, will it be accepted as such, yet it is a fraud.

i am ignoring the insult which hurts you more than it hurts me.

what you are saying is impossible because God would know it was a fraud and we would rely on the Holy Spirit to show us the truth.

we go through this all the time, if it isn't noah's ark, it is mt. sinai it is som eother hard to find place or artifact. you forget that we have both christian and secular experts examining every piece of evidence to make sure it is correct.

now let' take mt. sinai. Both the caldwells and bob cornuke have taken pictures of the mountain they claim is sinai (i have the caldwell's book and cornuke's dvd), nearby is a split rock. they both claim it is the split rock of the exodus fame. PROBLEM is they can't prove it true. its a split rock but they cannot prove it split 3,500 yeaes ago or that the supposed water from this one came out at that time.

in dealing with scriptural events and artifacts, there is no real test that will conclusively prove it to be what is claimed. sure one can put hieroglyphics on a tablet or monument but they can't fake the patina, they may not be able to write the ancient way thus the grammer would be off, et al. there are too many factors involved that would make it very difficult to pass off a forged item as real.

look at the james ossuary, the trial about its legitimacy has been going on for 4 years regardless of the experts (mostly secular) claims that it is not a forgery. guess what, we will never be able to prove it to be the ossuary of the real james who was the brother of Jesus. I have BAS's Jerusalem forgery conference report about this very item in my book case.

so your example fails because we are talking about the past and events that cannot be proven, and that is an orange compared to your apple of modern day scientists who can be shown to be wrong, or forged their studies simply because ceretain facts do not line up. you also have a confession soit makes your question a little moot.

Not if that is the only criterium you guys use. You see, this guy's findings were in favour of evolution, they were agreeing with it, meaning that if we would use the same criteria as you, we would declare it true regardless of it being a fraud.

when i wrote those words, i had in mind spoken declarations, or ideaologies etc., when it comes to physical evidence it is a different scenario though we would have clues like his tones, inflections, his mannerisms, his verbal story to indicate if he was lying or not.

we also have a very small archaeological community who would question things very thoroughly so it would be very hard to pass off an item as true when it was FABRICATED.

we believers have an advantage over you secularists, we have God on our side who doesn't want us falling victim to lies while you have te devil who wants you to be deceived and that makes a world of difference in dealing with these type of situations.

what bolderdash was upset about was jar's and other's declaration that the so-called self correcting aspect of science was flawless and did its job. it wasn't and it failed for 8 years. Add toti the fact that this isn't the first case, but thousands upon thousands of similar cases have been committed thus you cannot promote someting as ideal when it is not.

Would you ask god how atomic fision works then?

doesn't have to be in the Bible for God to show us how to get to the answer. since i am not an atomic physicist i wouldn't be asking and even in archaeology i would not ask to find the ark of the convenant for that may not be in His will for me to find BUT i would ask for the right spot to dig in to find truth, to give Him glory for what is found.

yet it is not like He is handing out candy every time someone asks Himsomething. there are 3 answers He will give, possibly 4; yes, no, not at this time, or itis not for you to do.

the rules are very different and there is a lot to take into consideration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Huntard, posted 08-31-2010 4:39 AM Huntard has responded

Replies to this message:
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Inactive Member

Message 54 of 65 (577953)
08-31-2010 7:55 AM

as an addendum: i would love it if someone would tell the hovinds they are out. not because he is totally wrong but that he is not totally on the up and up. i have commented on his website and since they are not the words the hovinds want to here they are edited out.

i do not agree that he was convicted improperly and i have told them so. but he is of the independent baptists who have listened to some false teaching concerning jurisdiction. so telling them anything falls on deaf ears.

Guess what, though? Science has the perfect response to corruption: requiring that stuff be repeatable and falsifiable. But creationism isn't either, so you have no basis for detecting corruption whatsoever.

yet your own process cannot be repeated nor falsified because you cannot prove it actually exists. sure you can attribute results to it, but you cannot prove those results are repeating the actual original changes claimed by evolutionists.

and since scientists are involved we know that they are not.

Fact: a scientist's reputation hinges on being as right as possible every time. If a scientist is demonstrated to be wrong even once, they are pretty much screwed.

really? didn't seem to hurt newton when einstein disagreed with him and vice versa.

didn't seem to hurt hawking when we went off on the string theory tangent.

i think you are misrepresenting things a lot here.

Fact: there is no power in an individual scientist. A vast majority of people in the scientific community with expertise must agree that the work is valid and that the method is repeatable (both of these are checked often actually by repeating it).

there is more than one definition of the word 'power' and more than one application. clarify do not assume.

Fact: You cannot hold the patent to a natural process

you do the same here. all you are doing is taking one limited definition or appication to make your point and it is dishonest.

Fact: honesty is the only way to ensure your results are based in reality and that they are testable. Because if you lie, and everybody else tries to replicate your method, and they get different numbers, then you will be found out for sure

yet what about those scientists who did not lie and others still got different results? Dr. D. Ratzsch's book talks about this exact thing {Battle of Beginnings:123}

We could easily contrast this with creationism, where one person can maintain a cult following with a few flicks of the wrist;

yet we know when and where they err. yes desperate people will flock to anything that tells them what they want to hear and for many they are hurt after finding out too late that they had been had.

can't stop sin from happening

We could easily contrast this with creationism, where people who are demonstrated conclusively to be liars and frauds remain celebrated proponents; where books which have been acknowledged as flawed reprinted in the exact same edition; where the same claims known to be false are used repeatedly by the aforementioned liars, frauds and books. The only reputation they need is of being a staunch creationist; nobody actually cares if they are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help them, God!*

please do not generalize. Provide the links to legitmate and credible websites that specifically document these things. i did for science's errors.

you know this

I'll back up my assertion when you back up yours. Got proof? Bring it. Don't? Fuck off.

just destroys any credibility you thought you had. because if you look back a few posts you will see that i did document and supported my words but people like you refuse to acknowledge that as you want to keep on claiming creationists do not provide evidence for their claims, well you are the liar not me.

you prove me correct when i say atheists and evolutionists, secularists are dishonest in their discussions an dit would be best if you did not respond to me anymore.

Replies to this message:
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