Herbal supplements in US commonly have traces of contaminants

Herbal Supplements Often Have Contaminants, Study Finds - The New York TimesLong ago, Buzsaw and I had grappled frequently over the issue of herbal supplements in the US. I was for treating them as drugs wrt regulations. He was for pretty much no regulation at all, as far as I could tell.I frequently warned that in the current regulatory climate, a time would soon come when we would learn of the danger of these products through just such a problem.As soon as I heard of this, in fact, I immediately thought of Buzsaw, and wondered how he and others like him would be taking the news.Prediction; a No True Scottsman Fallacy in 5...4...3...2...Edited by returninator, : No reason given.Edited by returninator, : No reason given.

Hi Nator and welcome back!Possibly even worse than the contamination is that; Very disturbing. Also very reminiscent of the Newsnight homeopathy sting of a couples of years ago. Their undercover reporter found that homeopaths were not only failing to advise people to take real anti-malarials, they were even failing to give sensible, holistic advice about prevention with insect repellent, nets, etc.Mutate and Survive

Anything sold to the public should be subject to over site and regulation. However, the bureaucracy and interest driven process of the FDA is seriously flawed. Do you think that the lobbyists from Phizer and Glaxo/Smith are more interested in public health or the $25 billion in annual supplement sales?The FDA finally awarded a GRAS designation for Stevia in 2009. This is a sweetener that has been used by millions of people for thousands of years. Were they protecting the people or the sugar industry?This may be a cynical take on it but I think the real problem stems from our tendency to look to the govt to protect us from our own ignorance. They should, by all means, provide the information and then let people make their own decisions. Nannies are for children.

Good topic!I've thought about this plenty, and all I can conclude is it's just a ticking time bomb waiting to go off... (some would say it already has in cases like that in r-nator's link)I know some of you don't think too highly about Rx meds due to dangers, side effects, etc, but at least these dangers are studied, tested, and documented (if not before hand, then after as anecdotal evidence becomes available). With naturopathic remedies, there is often no independent testing, and even anecdotal evidence tends to get hand-waved away.In the pharmacy, we're just now able to obtain fairly adequate references as to dosing, safety, and efficacy of (some of) these products, and even then it's sketchy at best. Some products have absolutely nothing to describe them save for what they've historically been used for. Patients then ask if they can take Blackwortyeastian with their Wellbutrin, and all I can do is ... *shrug*.It's the epitome of frustration that these things are not regulated.Have a good one.

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"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964

Currently, herbal supplements are not regulated even as well as food is. Actually, the FDA has been wanting to regulate herbal supplements for years and years, and it is the conservatives in congress who have consistently and repeatedly weakened most regulatory bodies like the FDA, the EPA, etc. I don't blame Big Business; they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. I blame our elected officials for gutting funding and power to the regulatory agencies.

First, as I understand them, naturopatic remedies are not an herbal perse and a relative minimal aspect of alternatives.What good is the testing of pharms when every horror all the way to death is allowed, whereas, one or two deaths are attributed to comphrey when some dummie or two overdosed on the root? The pharms are in the pocket of the FDA and the polititions. It's more about $$ and power than safety.Regulation only makes more $$ for the pharms and hassle for folks like me an my family who've never use expensive docs and who don't burden the taxpayers with medicare and gubm't paid healthcare. We know what herbals and suppliments to apply to which ailment. We know what to eat for ultimate health. Still at 75, Buzgirl and I haven't seen a doc in about 40 years, her for childbirth and me once when pharms almost did me in. Most naturals have disclaimer warnings on them with advice to check doc and not to take with pharms etc. Nearly all such remedies advocated in the media also include warnings to check doc first if on other meds etc. That's by law that they can't claim them as cures.Bottom line is that RARE, RARE, RARELY do we hear of a serious illness, side effect or death from the naturals, when, in fact hundreds of thousands die (I SAY DIE) from the pharms yearly. (I SAY YEARLY.), not to mention the millions who have heart attacks and all kinds of serious side effects from the PRESCRIBED drugs.Why should an herbal pill, having the ingredients of a weed or vegie which you can pick in the field need some bureaucratic oversight costing taxpayers millions for the bureaucracy and putting most of the naturals makers and businesses out of business because the big pharms are the only ones who can afford the added expense of producing and marketing? NOT TO MENTION, HAVE WE LOST ALL SENSE OF THE VALUE OF FREEDOM? FREEDOM ENTAILS AN ELEMENT OF RISK. A CAGED UP BIRD IS SAFE BUT NOT FREE. A FREE BIRD MAY NOT BE AS SAFE BUT A HAPPIER BIRD. ALL WE NEED IS A BATCH MORE OF LAWS TO FURTHER ENSLAVE OURSELVES TO TOTALITARIAN BIG GOVERNMENT.

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THE FDA ALREADY HAS THE POWER TO REGUATE HERBALS WHICH THEY DEEM TO POSE A RISK. THAT'S WHY THEY BANNED COMFREY. WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER LAW, THROWING OUT THE BABY WITH WHAT THEY CONSIDER BATHWATER. With the naturals forced out of business and millions more out of work, who will be left as an alternative to big gubm't sanctioned dangerous pharms? We all loose, sheeples for the slaughter.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

What makes you think so? The reason you don't hear about contaminated or side effects from herbals is because the side effects of herbals are GOOD, that they are, by law required to have expiration dates and that they are not generally prone to spoilage etc. It's not only the conservatives. It's the sensible majority that has some regard for freedom and enough common sense to know how relatively little the risk is. How big and oppressive do you want big gubm't to get? How about gubm't mandated breathometers to placate the enviroweenies?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

That is naive in the extreme.Annual Causes of Death in the United StatesTobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0Drug Policy Facts | Knowledge Is Power

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.Are you saying that big business is responsible for those deaths?I don't get it.

That's my take on it too. I am generally for a laissez-faire market, with minimal regulation. I agree that independent research does need to be conducted to ensure the safety of a product. The problem is that, as you've eloquently stated, "bureaucracy and interest driven process of the FDA is seriously flawed." Amen. A lot of people have this false illusion and false sense of self-entitlement that the gov't should hold their hands through life, from cradle to grave. Anything less than self-reliance fosters dependency.

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

Hi Hyro, That's all very well, but in truth you cannot free yourself from this particular dependency. Nor can you wipe your own ass when you've been lethally poisoned by dodgy herbs, something that has actually happened in some cases.Suppose you want to take oh, say, silverweed. My Edible and Medicinal Plants book claims that it's good for "bladder and kidney complaints and diarrhoea", but it doesn't provide any evidence for that. Nor does it give any detailed advice about risk.Say you want to try and work out;
a) If it works;
b) If it is harmful and;
c) If it reacts with other medicines/herbs.How are you going to do that on your own? Perhaps there are existing studies on silverweed that you can look at - but perhaps there are not. If not, you're screwed. You can't conduct a clinical trial all on your own. You can't collect epidemiological data on your own. You are left with no meaningful way of assessing the effectiveness or harm of the product. We are left with a situation where manufacturers and vendors can make whatever medicinal claims they please, and you are powerless to assess their veracity.Now that may be good enough when buying most goods, but with healthcare, I think that people have a right to expect that any medicine they buy to work and be safe. Certainly they have a right to expect that they will not be poisoned, a guarantee that they will not be poisoned, something that the current US and UK systems clearly do not prevent. As far as I can see the only way to achieve reasonable levels of safety is to place the onus for testing upon the manufacturers and/or vendors, because the customer simply doesn't have the option.If you can show me how a non "dependant" system would work, I'm all ears, but I just don't see it.Mutate and Survive

Hi, nator. How nice to type that again...In the other thread where this subject came up, I'm afraid Buz mistook my enthusiasm for his nick (c'mon--Buz favors herbal liberty ), his nickname for his wife, Buzgirl, their consumption of thousands of pounds of herbs (maybe only onifre and I can match that), and my "Right on, bro!" for opposition to the regulation of herbal remedies.One man's herb is another man's...herb. So I approach this from the intersection of cognitive liberty and public safety. If somebody wants to grow or harvest an herb and consume it, whether for recreation or medicine or poison, that's fine with me.They can take my herb away when they pry it from my cold dead fingers. Take that, Chuck.But herbal materials packaged as medicine and sold to the public as medicine shoud be subject to strict regulation and testing; outlandish, undocumented claims should be forbidden; materials contaminated with prescription drugs or heavy metals should lead to criminal prosecutions.Bit deregulation and defunding of regulatory agencies has created governmental watchdogs who want to lick industry's butt and roll over.We've seen the result of decades of lax enforcement and eight years of deregulation across the board: a coal mine industry regulated by people they party with finds it easier to pay paltry fines than to maintain workplace safety. So people die.Coal companies are cited and fined; but they don't have to pay while the fines are appealed, and the appeals take years. Regulation never actually costs them anything because they seldom have to pay, and when they do the fines are trivial, an accepted cost of doing business.BP drills offshore in the gulf without any real review, turns off its alarms, has a spill contigency plan that was a cut-and-paste from Alaska, including arctic animals and dead men as resources to call upon for expert advice. People die, and the Gulf Coast faces economic and environmental disaster.Now BP threatens to "be unable" to meet the costs of the clean-up unless we give them more permits.Food safety was simiarly defunded. Result? Deadly hamburgers, ptomaine chicken, and food stuffs imported from China with the most bizarre industrial chemical contaminants. Tens of thousands of industrial chemicals--including potent endocrine disruptors--enjoy a "grandfathered" status under the law and need pass no safety tests, while amphibians and Florida cougars develop increasingly devastating reproductive anomalies.Even now the manufacturers need not demonstrate safety: you can make it and use it until someone else proves that it's dangerous, the exact opposite of the more enlightened European practice. Organophosphates were recently linked to an increased risk for autism: in agricultural communities out west, poor communities are paid off with trival sums when a fog of organophosphates floats over their homes and schools.I can't go to the feedlot and inspect my beef and chicken; we have little choice other than to rely on government for that. I can't undertake the studies that would eliminate those thousands of dangerous chemicals: I have to rely on the government for that.We should regulate and test commercial herb; we should legalize all homegrown herbs.

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Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

Nator is saying that we need more regulation. I am pointing out that fully regulated products like tobacco, alcohol, prescription drugs and aspirin kill alot of people every year. I understand that it is not that straight forward and we need some of the good powerful drugs that dont grow in the garden.I am saying that the regulatory structure has lost credibility and that this is a much larger problem than trace elements found in the herbals. The contamination possibly coming from the soil and water in Illinois or Omaha.Information should be increased and regulation decreased.I am also saying that big business is culpable because big business is always culpable. Pharmaceutical corps spend something like $900 million a year on lobbying and the govt does what it can for them. The regulators are in the pocket of big business. Maybe it should work like that.

Why?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

I didn't say any of that in defense of people who use herbs as a remedy. I'm saying that pharmaceuticals and the FDA should not be anyone's assurance. I could point to 101 cases of people dying or being irreparably harmed by pharmaceuticals. That's WITH the FDA's approval... I'm not saying the FDA is functionless, I'm saying that take everything they say with a grain of salt. These are the same kind of people that disseminated the same propaganda that marijuana caused "reefer madness," making negro's and chinamen go crazy and have homicidal ideations.

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine