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Author | Topic: Faith healing: why does god need to asked to heal people? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
archaeologist Inactive Member
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Why does god need to be petitioned by people saying prayers to heal people? #1 God is respecting your right of free choice. what good would it do if He healed someone who did not want to be healed? they would be angry become resentful and stop following Him. #2. communication is done by speaking and requesting reveals the heart and faith of the person. God operates BY FAITH not secular science.
Does this mean that god only heals those who have enough people who like and pray for them? nope. it takes only one or two
Can't god tell when a person deserves healing? yes, but people have free choice tus they get to decide if they want healing or not. God will NOT force people to do things at this time---if He did there would be NO atheists.
It seems to me that there are millions of people around the world who could be healed and yet this does not happen. God has chosen to work through His followers and if they choose not to exercise the spiritual gifts bestowed upon them then many will not be healed, or helped. just like the nations of the world who have people starving, if ther nations decide not to help, those people will die.
Why does god need to be asked to heal people? need is a strong word, He doesn't 'need' to be asked, HE wants people to learn to do it right, to be humble, to give Him the glory and show that it was Him alone that did it and was NOT coincidence, an alternative and so on. He wants to make sure all people know that He alone is the one who healed so that His existence is proved true and that He can demonstrate that He loves you, has compassion, mercy, and is interested in you plus that He is involved with life andnot some nameless, faceless, silent, seperated god.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
God only heals those who dedicate their lives to Him.
this is contradicted by jesus' healing of the 10 lepers and so many others. i have not seen any verse which makes this restriction and certainly all the people that jesus healed did NOT dedicate themselves to Him. another example would be the roman soldier, at no time is such an act recorded in the story nor of the soldiers servant. it may have come as a RESULT of the healing but it is NOT a requirement.
So God isn't so much answering pleas as he is giving back to those who have dedicated their lives to Him. again this is contradicted by the example fo Nicky Cruz who had prayer answered BEFORE he repented and became a believer.
But bad stuff happens because of man's free will. God heals those who use that free will to dedicate their lives to Him... that's the measure of "deserving". no the measure is FAITH not dedication as Jesus repeatedly said 'your faith...' or 'greater faith i have not seen in all of israel...' has nothing to do with dedication or 'deserving'.
He doesn't. It just looks like this on the surface if you don't understand the proper procedure of dedicating your life to God. see my previouspost.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
Having spent most of my life as a Christian, it is obvious. I have seen literally thousands of prayers answered, whether for healing, wisdom, courage, guidance, exam results(!), etc. Amazing, all of them. then why did you leave God?
But it is the tens of thousands that I have seen go unanswered, those desperate for healing and getting none, those following every Word given them and falling further and further into debt and despair, Terry Waite spending four years as a hostage in Lebanon despite me praying for him every day is God bound to answer only the way you want? cannot God say 'no' or 'not at this time' or 'your request is corrupted by the wrong motive'? or did you fail to see God provide an answer and that the people did not respond or do what He said because it wasn't the answer they wanted? why punish God for things people did or did not do?
God does not exist how can you say this when your first response was 'i saw many answered prayers...it was all amazing...'? obviously, God does exist you just let your doubt allow evil to lead you astray.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
Except in the case of amputees, where it seems to require rather a larger number. More than seven billion, apparently. ahh the amputee perspective. God is not forced to heal everyone and why He does not heal more than He does is up to Him and He has His reasons.
I don't know that God doesn't heal amputees. I'm sure it's rare, but then it just stands to reason that it would take a lot of faith. Jesus said you only need a little (mustard seed) but he also said you have to use it. It would take a lot of faith to equal a little at times Does God heal Amputees? as i stated in the other thread, people are looking for one answer and do not acdept anyother. these people get artificial limbs ,they get medical treatment and the timing is of God. God isn't going to use a miracle of regrowing a limb every time. but atheists just want excuses to remain atheists.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
If you consider prayers which come about, are "answered", as being proof of God's existence then do you consider unanswered prayers proof that God does not exist? Since you don't, how can that be anything but confirmation bias?
didn't say that did i? if one sees thousands of answered prayers then obviously they must come to the conclusion that God exists and is active with His creation. to leave that belief over unanswered prayers shows a selfishness in the departing person because they could not accept the answer granted. it has nothing to do with God but the attitude of the person.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
Really? Even if thats out of tens of millions unanswered? It has everything to do with determining if God is any more reliable than random chance.
archaeologist writes:
Really? Even if thats out of tens of millions unanswered? didn't say that did i? if one sees thousands of answered prayers then obviously they must come to the conclusion that God exists and is active with His creation. It has everything to do with determining if God is any more reliable than random chance. you need to understand something, in christianity every prayer IS answered. when people claim it is unanswered and leave the faith, all they are saying is-- we did not get the answer we wanted or expected. God is not a santa claus whose only job is to answer prayers like handing out candy cane. believers are not going to be spoiled by God
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
cannot leave something that does not exist yet you can't say that as you cannot prove those prayers were unanswered. nor can you say that because you have not been to every place in the world at the same time to make sure He wasn't avoiding you.
I simply finally had the courage to leave childish ways behind. for what? a process that does not exist? a false belief? or your own way? all of which offers you nothing.
You missunderstand - there were no answered prayers, only simple random chance and confirmation bias. prove it.
No. As with most Christians, I experienced doubt all through my 23 years as a believer. I no longer have any doubts i have no doubts so we know your statement is in error. yes you do, you doubt that God exists, you do not know it because you cannot prove it true. I am sure God is right, has little to do with me.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
How exactly is this distinguishable from there not being a being there at all, who said He wasn't there? again you make judgements based upon the idea that te prayers were not answered your way, yet God is not limited to your way.
or a being that is indifferent to prayer? who said He was indifferent? again you are basing this condemnation upon not getting what you want or someone not getting what they want. it sounds more like a temper tantrum from a spoiled child than a rational argument.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
It might be that the method and track record your god uses to answer prayer does not make it possible to determine that there is any intelligence behind the behavior practice what you preach in your first paragraph.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
but any god that wants to play silly games like that can go fuck himself - why would I want to worship a being that has less love and empathy for the World than me? yup the spoiled child syndrome. didn't get what he wanted so he throws a tantrum and false accusations to boot.
I can't prove (or even begin to support) that prayers are "answered" more frequently than random chance would suggest. Your god is no better than random chance, so why waste your time worshipping that? you made the charge, the burden of proof is upon you. oh and there are ways to prove that God did it. {right, so if i supposedly do not follow the rules of this board i am attacked and suspended yet if you do not, it is okay. i see how it goes here}
Your one data point does not discount a "most". You, my friend, are rather extreme in the world of evangelical Christians - you are very far from typical. yes i am. that is because i am not evangelical because the Bible doesn't make those type of distinctions. you are either a follower, believer of God or you are not. there is no middle ground with God. i put the Bible ahead of all fields of study and i do not compromise what i believe. whichis why i can say there is no micro-evolution either--can't be because whenGod created he saw it was good so there is no need for micro-changes to improve any species. most evangelicals want the what the world offers or try to appease unbelievers, i do neither. if you do not like the message of God then that is your choice i cannot change it to something you like-- whichmeans that i cannot always meet the demand of 'secular scientific evidence' because secular science is far too limited and its demands are far too unrealistic.
There is no doubt The evangelical Christian god does not exist the fool has said in his heart there is no God. God exists and He wrote the Bible, it is just that unbelievers will not see it because no matter what a believer does they doubt, deny, and disbelieve so it is no wonder they would make statements lik eyours.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
You have not supported your claim that a small proportion of seemingly answered prayers should be considered proof of an active or even existing god through reasoned argumentation. You have not provided any additional evidence or enlarged upon the argument when presented with rebuttals. last i looked you were not a moderator nor an admistrator so either practice what you preach or do not respond to me again.
the Bible does not go on to say that micro-evolution was not part of God's plan yes it does, read Gen 1:30
The story of Noah tells us that Noah loaded 2 of each "kind" on to the Ark. Not 2 of each specific species, but 2 of each "kind". Well in order for us to have the diversity of life that we have today from a small starter pool of just 2 of each kind, you must have evolution, both macro and micro. that is where you are wrong again neither exist nor did God use them. you forget how genes are designed to work and they do not require any form of evolution. evolutionists are just trying to steal God's glory.
in this case God has NEVER chosen to heal an amputee prove it for i know that is false as we have the gospels recording Jesus healing the lopped off ear of a person who came to arrest him. what you mean to say is you have willfully chosen to distort the idea of healing to justify your unbelief. amputees are healed, just not in the way they want. if the limb didn't come off, they would die. if the limb didn't heal from the amputation, they would die. God heals amputees but He heals them in the way He WANTS because He knows that the amputee is asking for restoration not healing. the rest of the comments are not worth replying to as they come form those who are not sincere and just want to make trouble.
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