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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 13 of 657 (579686)
09-05-2010 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
09-02-2010 10:26 AM


im guessing 600 000 isrealites traveling trough the deserd would leave some trace, a row of pottery, lamb bones, stories of other kinggdoms having seen a whole mass of ppl lost and wandering trough the desert whitout a map and to proud to ask for directions. nothing simmilar anywhere

im also guessing sinc the egyptians where very burocratict that somwhre on an old parchemnt someonoe would find somthing simmilar to this: after the 600 000 isrealites left there is a large strawless brick shortage in eypt and the sorrounding lands prices for bricks whit straws have gone way up more taxsation is needed to build the nexst temple.


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Replies to this message:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 22 of 657 (580014)
09-07-2010 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
09-07-2010 8:55 AM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
well in that case they could have not mentiond the battle where Ramses II lost a battle against Hittites though true they turned it around and said the gods favored ramses by saving him from being killed they could have done smothing simmilar to the isrealites like the farao threw them out cause they where not worthy to live in egipt.

well i guess they dont find any other remanis of any other nomadic tribes whit way less members than 600 000.

http://oi.uchicago.edu/pdf/ois5.pdf oo wait they do

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 29 of 657 (580024)
09-07-2010 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Huntard
09-07-2010 9:46 AM


Re: Calculations. Yay!
the lowest estimates possible is 600 000 people if you read the word unit not as a Military unit but as family and evan if you half that do to
exaggeration u get 300 000 people. xserksies had at moste 200 000 men at termopolie and after he lost his ships he lost the means to feed and supply his army who can feed 300 000 people in the dessert on the run for 40 years.

if 15 peple eat a lamb a day equals to 20000 lambs a day in 15 days 300 000 lambs in a year 6 000 000 000 lambs in 40 years 2400 000 000 000 lambs lets not talk about bread a kilo of flouer for a loaf of bread for 4 people a day, and im guessing that evry oasis they would come across would be drank dry when they left.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Coragyps, posted 09-07-2010 12:10 PM frako has responded

frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 32 of 657 (580054)
09-07-2010 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Coragyps
09-07-2010 12:10 PM


Re: Calculations. Yay!
Biblical description
Manna is described as being comparable to Hoarfrost in size. Hoarfrost on grass lawn.
According to the book of Exodus, manna is white, like Coriander seed.

In the description in the Book of Exodus, manna is described as being available six mornings a week, after the dew had evaporated.[1] It is described in the Book of Numbers as arriving with the dew during the night;[2] Exodus adds that manna was comparable to hoarfrost in size,[1] similarly had to be collected before it was melted by the heat of the sun,[3] and was white like coriander seed in color.[4] Numbers describes it as having the appearance of bdellium,[5] adding that the Israelites ground it and pounded it into cakes, which were then baked, resulting in something that tasted like cakes baked with oil.[6] Exodus states that raw manna tasted like wafers that had been made with honey.[4] The Israelites were instructed to eat only the manna they had gathered for each day. Leftovers or manna stored up for the following day "bred worms and stank":[7] the exception being the day before Shabbat (Preparation Day), when twice the amount of manna was gathered, which did not spoil overnight.

this is form wikipedia

how could i have been so foolish to forget that god was in play here and that he suplyed them whit magical food that fell from the sky each morning except on the sabbath and it rotted away durnig the night except on the night before sabbath. if he could make it rain food for 40 years why cant he make it rain food in africa where thousands are dying evry day because of starvation, or whhy couldent he make it rain some food in the concentration camps.


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frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 33 of 657 (580074)
09-07-2010 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
09-07-2010 8:55 AM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
it is my opinoin that what really happened got lost trough gossip

exsample and a true story
a few years ago a friend of mine got in to a terrible motorcycle accident luckaly they where able to help him in the hospital and he survived though he hadto remain in the hospital for 2 months.

this is what people where saying during that time

1 week he had an accident cause he was drunk and he died (he was not drunk and he dint die)
2 week the burial alredy took place many were there (no burial you dont bury somone that is alive and noone coould have been there)
3 week the mother had a mental brake down and was viseting a mental hostpital (no she did not have a mental brake down and she was visiting him in a normal hospital.)

you would imagine the surprise of the town when he came back to life or should i say when he came back from the hospital.

the same probably happened to most bible stories before they where written down im gussing in the caswe of the exsedus isrealites where escaping from egypt on a dayly basis or weekly and over time their stories fussed in to one grand story.


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frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 49 of 657 (580251)
09-08-2010 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
09-08-2010 10:51 AM


Re: Arabia/Midian Evidence
and naturaly you can prove this by diving there and finding a huge pile of egyptian chariots, armor, and skeletons.

This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 91 of 657 (581167)
09-14-2010 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Buzsaw
09-13-2010 11:26 PM


Re: Wrong Region: Strawman.
None of this diminishes the evidence cited a whit. The Israelites were entrapped in the wilderness area of the gulf, the only escape being the wadi valley, through which they had gone.

ok now go to that aerea and dig a litle to see if you can find some or preferably a lot of evidence that someone was there


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 Message 89 by Buzsaw, posted 09-13-2010 11:26 PM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply

frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 251 of 657 (602675)
01-30-2011 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 10:37 PM


Re: That's It For Now
I got a question for you Buzz you believe that the flood happened, and that the exodus accured.

To my understanding the flood suposedly happened 4500 years ago, and the exodus happened abbout 1000 years later right.

So in 1000 years the egiptians forgot their old god and made idols to worship, they invented a new tottaly different language, conqured the isrealites. And everyone bred like rabbits so enough people could be made for the glorrius exedus event.

not to mentiion at the same time 1000 years enough people where made to populate all the continents build huge cities invent their own languageges their own gods and forget their old god all of this in 1000 years with the exodus to boot.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 460 of 657 (607772)
03-06-2011 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by Buzsaw
03-06-2011 6:25 PM


Re: Summarizing The Evidence
We've gone over this same-ole, Jar. I'm not going to re-hash it all over, especially knowing that nothing will satisfy you people who have a phobia of anything supportive to the supernatural. . The only reason I brought it forward is to show what evidence I cited.

Well im an atheist and i have no phobia for EVIDENCE of the supernatural, and am actualy quite interested in some supernatural claim shows. And am quite intrigued by the EVP (electronic voice phenomenon) evidence some ghostunter shows come up with.

Tough if some ghost hunter shows an evp with one badly heard word im not gona take that as evidence of any kind because our brains are wired to make sense of patterns even if there is no sence in patterns tough i herd some evps that make your skin crawl 4 and more word sentences clearly heard and in context with questions asked. Now that kind of evidence merits speculation, more investigation .......

Now the same goes for you and your claims if you have such claims that go against factual evidence known so fare you haveto provide STRONG evidence strong enough to merit rethinking of the old facts, a broken rock in a desert filled with broken rocks is very weak, a cow painting not strong at all, corrals that look like wheels do not convince me to change history books it is an interesting find it would merit further investigation just to be sure tough my money is on more plausible explanations like (they just happen to look like wheels and are not wheels, they are weals of a different era fallen of a boat ......)

evidence that would make me lean to your side of the debate would be:
- a trail of lamb bones, broken pots, wheels fireplaces ......
- Egyptian hyrolgiphes telling the same storry
- Writings of other nations describing the tale .....

Stuff like that that we would be sure to find if the exodus happened you can apologiese the lack of this evidence all you want whiteout some concrete evidence its not believable.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by Buzsaw, posted 03-06-2011 6:25 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 510 of 657 (612571)
04-17-2011 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 506 by Buzsaw
04-17-2011 1:11 AM


Re: Buzsaw Evidence Recapped
gona try and compare your evidence with another story

Duck 1. The Biblical record of the Exodus said that when they reached the sea they were entrapped with the pursuing Egyptians pursuing via the only route in, implying a wadi in a narrow passage through rugged terrain.

The legend of King Matjaž says that after saying im such a good king i could beat god in battle god opened the heavens and sent his army and King Matjaž cried mountain Peca open up and hide me implying the mountain Peca witch has lots of holes to hide in.

Duck 2. While at the sea shore there needed to be a large enough beach to accommodate a large number of people and animals. Nuweiba beach and it's surrounding terrain fits the ticket.

Wile the mountin had to be large enough for King Matjaž and his army to hide under mount peca fits the bill perfectly

Duck 3. The alleged crossing was the most shallow part of the sea where they were entrapped.

The mountain is riddled with caves they could have hidden in it from any side

Duck 4. Photographed forms in the shapes of wheels and axles off the beach on the sea bottom

You can clearly see the shape of a mans face on mount peca and you can find lots of weapons and stuff lying around mount peca (or anywhere in Slovenia )

Duck 5. A split rock where water flowed from meeting the description of the record.

A formation of stalagmites and stalactites that have verry close resemblance of king matjaž and his beard which hasto grow around a table 7 times before he awakes again can be see under mount peca

Duck 6. The record says they were in the land of Midian after the crossing...

The legend says that he was in front of mount peca at the time.

Duck 7 ..where Mt Sinai was according to the record.

And mount peca is still there today

Duck 8. The top of the mountain was miraculously burnt by an act of God. Acclaimed Mt Sinai has a blackened top.

Mount peca has some strange properties and lots of voodo mumbo jumbos and lots go to certian places there for healing and stuff

Duck 9. Moses encounters the father of his wives in the land of Midian, according to the record.

King matjaž was awakened for a brief moment by a stranger so the legend says but he went back to sleep until his beard grows long enough that it can go around a table 7 times so the legend says.

Duck 10. A blacked top mountain acclaimed by explorers not to be volcanic, meeting the location of the record.

Mount peca is not volcanic either

Duck 11. Rock inscriptions of bulls horses or cows indicative to occupation at some time by people at the base of the mountain.

Actual swords and armor and tools and stuff have been found around the mountain

Duck 12. A large plain at the foot of the mountain suitable for a sojourn for the large assembly and where they worshiped the golden calf while Moses was on the mountain receiving the commandment stones. etc.

Lots of caves under the mountain are suttible for hiding a large army.

All this means that the Legend of King Matjaž is true and the fact that there is no other record except the legend of him anywhere is just more proof of his exsistance cause who would write about a king that beaten everyone else in battle that notion is just absurd.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Fixed quote box

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Buzsaw, posted 04-17-2011 1:11 AM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply

frako
Member
Posts: 2823
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 521 of 657 (612615)
04-17-2011 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by OliverChant
04-17-2011 2:38 PM


Re: Buzsaw Evidence Recapped

Do you know the desert is constantly moving ,ever seen a sandstorm everything disappears..omg(btw I'M 14 years old and I answered that for you!)

Archaeologists have excavated a trove of Stone Age human skeletons and artifacts on the shores of an ancient lake in the Sahara.

Guess these skeletons dint want to move or god put them there to test your faith

"It was a place you could walk out the door of your hut amid the sand dunes and perhaps see hippos, elephants, giraffes, and crocodiles," he added.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/..._sahara_artifacts.html

so that you dont get the misconception there were no sand dunes around

now be a good 14 year old and go ask your preacher why do you haveto believe in his god while there are 1000 of other gods around all have magical storries and miracles ....... you know gods like

you can get a few hundred names of gos from http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/names/gods.htm they have just as much evidence supporting their exsistance as does your god. namely NONE


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