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Author Topic:   The Flood = many coincidences
jar
Member
Posts: 30994
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 241 of 445 (579729)
09-05-2010 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 7:20 PM


Re: Plate Tectonics Is Asinine In My Own Words.
Again, the nagging question to every Earth scientist is WHY is the Earth wrecked with so many faults, fissures and fossils? NOT plate tectonics continental bash n crash, but due to a global event that wrecked the crust, i.e. when the Earth literally vomited for 150 days during the Great Flood.

When you mention the Biblical Flood as the cause of anything, an event that has been totally refuted, you loose almost all credibility. When you then go on and misrepresent what is actually in the various Biblical Flood myths you not only loose credibility, you show you do not even know what the Bible says.

Since it is quite clear that you know nothing about geology and even less about what the Bible says, is there any reason for anyone to humor you?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Architect-426, posted 09-05-2010 7:20 PM Architect-426 has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 242 of 445 (579730)
09-05-2010 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 7:18 PM


Re: Majar volcanism first, then "plate boundaries"
No he didnt. He just stroked the plate tectonic peacock because it is what all Earth scientists are trained to do due to their dupeness of believing the diagrams. The theory is so engrained into them they cannot see past the irrational and illogical ideology that it is.

How do you explain why they failed to reject it back in the 1960s when they'd been brought up to reject it? When it had been "engrained into them" that continental drift was for cranks? When their "ideology" was that there was no such thing?

Those of us who live in the real world know why. It's because they kept getting slapped in the face with the evidence until they woke up.

+++Note how most volcanic and earthquake activity occurs along plate boundaries.+++

Not always the case.

Note the word "most".

Note also that "A => B" and "B => A" are two different propositions.

Oh boy, the earth is sucking itself up! These alleged subduction zones have angled faults. What massive force dredged out these oceanic pits and created angled faults? Oh, and never mind the lack of ANY sediment build-up after sucking up the ocean floor for only 200 million years (MAX declared by science because this is the maximum age of the ocean crust, while continents are billions of years old). I suppose the plate tectonic tinker bell just made all the sedimentation disappear

I think that you're trying to say that you don't know why trenches exist; to which you're apparently adding a foolish pretense that accretionary prisms don't exist.

But the obscurity of your style makes it hard to be sure what it is you're trying to be wrong about.

Why is the Pacific ringed with subduction zones but does not have any Mid-Ocean Ridge MOMs to poop out and spread any ocean crust? Per the PT theory this has to occur ...

Yeah.

Where, oh where is that East Pacific Rise? It's a big puzzle. To blind people.

But wait... True observation of the Pacific Ocean topography reveals massive land wrecks and the island forming volcanism (including Hawaii) are the remnant "gurgling" of this massive explosive/subsidence event that obliterated what was once dry land. True observation reveals that there are approx. 50,000 volcanic "hot spots" in the Pacific. Play tectonics? Nope. A massive destructive explosive watery event.

You know that thing I explained to you about assertion not being argument?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Architect-426, posted 09-05-2010 7:18 PM Architect-426 has not yet responded

  
shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 1019 days)
Posts: 397
Joined: 01-10-2009


Message 243 of 445 (579737)
09-05-2010 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Architect-426
09-05-2010 7:18 PM


and the island forming volcanism (including Hawaii) are the remnant "gurgling" of this massive explosive/subsidence event that obliterated what was once dry land.

..and that would explain a linear progression in radiometric dates from the Big Island to the end at Suiko Seamount how??


source


If you want to be forgiven, learn to forgive, and eventually you may become generous enough to include yourself along with the rest of humanity.
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Architect-426
Member (Idle past 2793 days)
Posts: 76
From: NC, USA
Joined: 07-16-2008


(1)
Message 244 of 445 (579872)
09-06-2010 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Dr Adequate
09-05-2010 7:43 PM


Re: Sea-Floor "spreading" is false - Plate Tectonics is finished
Since sea-floor "spreading" cannot be tested (only assumed), now we are getting to the very heart of the matter;

+++The success of this startling testable prediction did a lot to swing geologists towards the plate tectonics model.+++

Testable spreading? How so? I have never seen a testable sea-floor spread. Simply because this test is unable to be performed in which magma upwells along a fault, then magically splits in half and floats in two opposing directions. And since this is indeed a volcanic action (or rather an assumed volcanic action), one would have to ponder deeply why this magmatic mechanism is NOT observed in any terrestrial volcanic edifice. When magma pours onto the surface, it tends to ooze in a radial pattern, NOT a knife split assumed spreading direction. This ides itself is preposterous.

The compression scenario of the MOR formation however, can be tested (and repeated, i.e. true science) and is done so often in material mechanics (ASTM C873 is one of many). By simple observation of the compression test, the resulting fracture patterns can be predicted. These patterns due to failure of the material (truly no matter what type of detritus you place inside the test) will always yield similar results. Now compare these to the entire MOR formation and it becomes quite clear that they were indeed buckled due to axial loading. The continuous stress caused the transform faults to open up due to sheer (also explaining the ridge offsets). The ridges are caused by the buckling action of the load.

Again, this observable, testable and repeatable science places a huge monkey wrench in the plate tectonic spreading scenario and stops it in its tracks. Of course since plate tectonics is the hound dog Elvis of evolution, it certainly wont go down without a fight.

For the innocent bystanders, here is an example of axial loading (the arrows on Dr. As examples are pointing in the wrong direction):

CONTINENT--->===IIII===<---CONTINENT
.....................MOR formation.....................

The compression of the MOR formation are due to vertical tectonics of the continents thus placing a secondary (yet still massive) lateral load in opposing directions on the ocean lithosphere causing it to experience extreme buckling.

As you and everyone else who is a scientist know that scaling laws certainly apply. If a scenario can be modeled on a small scale, the same will result in a large scale. You test a small plane before you build a full-scale one. You test a structure via modeling before you build a full-scale structure. The Mid Ocean Ridge formation can be tested on a small scale via axial loading and applied to the full-scale formation.

Since sea-floor spreading is false, Plate Tectonics is finished. S. America was never cuddled up next to Africa, Japan was never in the vicinity of California, Antarctica was never snuggled up against Australia, and Iberia was never double-parked beside Manhattan. These are all scientific myths. In other words, Pangea never existed in the form so belovedly assumed and preached by evolutionists. There certainly was more land prior to the Flood, especially in the Pacific, but it experienced massive concussion during the Flood, and it crashed due to intense/massive explosions and now scientists are performing Flood forensics.

Edited by Architect-426, : clarity


This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5393
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 245 of 445 (579878)
09-06-2010 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Architect-426
09-06-2010 11:32 AM


Re: Sea-Floor "spreading" is false - Plate Tectonics is finished
now scientists are performing Flood forensics.

Which scientists? Have they published yet?

And why can we measure the spreading rate on either side of a mid-ocean ridge if the sides are converging, as you imagine?


This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 246 of 445 (579898)
09-06-2010 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Architect-426
09-06-2010 11:32 AM


Re: Sea-Floor "spreading" is false - Plate Tectonics is finished
Since sea-floor "spreading" cannot be tested (only assumed) ...

Wrong.

+++The success of this startling testable prediction did a lot to swing geologists towards the plate tectonics model.+++

Testable spreading? How so?

I explained this to you. They predicted that left displacement of the ridge should correspond to relative motion to the right along transform faults and vice versa; and they were right.

And since this is indeed a volcanic action (or rather an assumed volcanic action), one would have to ponder deeply why this magmatic mechanism is NOT observed in any terrestrial volcanic edifice. When magma pours onto the surface, it tends to ooze in a radial pattern, NOT a knife split assumed spreading direction.

If lava comes out of a linear fissure, obviously it's going to spread roughly at right angles to the direction of the fissure except at the ends. How else would it behave?

The compression scenario of the MOR formation however, can be tested (and repeated, i.e. true science) and is done so often in material mechanics (ASTM C873 is one of many).

So not by looking at the actual sea floor, then?

By simple observation of the compression test, the resulting fracture patterns can be predicted. These patterns due to failure of the material (truly no matter what type of detritus you place inside the test) will always yield similar results. Now compare these to the entire MOR formation and it becomes quite clear that they were indeed buckled due to axial loading. The continuous stress caused the transform faults to open up due to sheer (also explaining the ridge offsets). The ridges are caused by the buckling action of the load.

I'm still waiting for some evidence. You claim that compression will reproduce the ridge, the rift, and the transform faults. If this is true and known to be true, then someone has done the experiment and published it somewhere. Where?

Again, this observable, testable and repeatable science places a huge monkey wrench in the plate tectonic spreading scenario and stops it in its tracks.

Again, if it is observable, then some evidence would be nice.

And even if by some wild coincidence you happened to be telling the truth, the ability of compression to mimic one aspect of seafloor spreading would not alone make it a suitable replacement. Can your compression also mimic the radiometric measurements, the magnetic anomalies, the layer-cake effect?

But before we get on to that, perhaps first you could show us evidence that it can do the one thing you do claim it can do.

Or perhaps you can't. I'm not holding my breath.

For the innocent bystanders, here is an example of axial loading (the arrows on Dr. As examples are pointing in the wrong direction):

CONTINENT--->===IIII===<---CONTINENT
.....................MOR formation.....................

The arrows may be pointing in the wrong direction according to your hypothesis, but they are pointing in the right direction according to geologists who have gone and looked.

As you and everyone else who is a scientist know that scaling laws certainly apply.

You might want to look up the words "scaling laws".

If a scenario can be modeled on a small scale, the same will result in a large scale.

In this particular case is fairly obvious that you can't get the same results with a tabletop model, because it will not reproduce the change from brittle elastic to plastic ductile behavior of rocks at depth.

Since sea-floor spreading is false, Plate Tectonics is finished.

You know how I explained to you the difference between assertion and argument?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Architect-426, posted 09-06-2010 11:32 AM Architect-426 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Architect-426, posted 12-14-2010 6:48 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 247 of 445 (579929)
09-06-2010 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Architect-426
09-06-2010 11:32 AM


Re: Sea-Floor "spreading" is false - Plate Tectonics is finished
im guessing that GPS data that america is moving away form Europe at about 2 cm per year (not actualy sure could be a bit more or less i forgot) would not convince you that plate Tectonics is still happening has happend and will be happening for a long long time.

just in case it might il go and find the data.

edit:found it

"Furthermore, the plates are actually moving today. They move about 1 inch per year (some places as much as 2.5 inches per year). Once upon a time that would have been difficult to measure, but not any more. The Global Positioning System (GPS) can pinpoint locations to millimeter accuracy, if the receiver is allowed to remain in one place long enough."

from http://www.ridgenet.net/~do_while/sage/v5i3f.htm

edit again: oh god and the article is written by a creationist he thinks that the collision happend faster in days gone by. (im guessing he dose not know that friction makes heat and if they went a lot faster i think it would melt the crust and then it would take a few thousand years for it to cool again)

Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3725
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 248 of 445 (579967)
09-07-2010 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Percy
12-11-2008 8:06 PM


A correction from 9 months ago (no need for a reply)
Percy writes:

Your claim was that the flood was responsible for many collapsed volcanic calderas spread numerously about the sea floor. Minnemooseus wasn't questioning the existence of collapsed volcanic calderas. He was questioning your claim that they were caused by the flood.

Actually, I was questioning the existence:

Minnemooseus writes:

Architect-426 writes:

Also there are several huge submarine calderas (collapsed volcanoes) all over the place.

Example please? I personally don't know of such a thing.

At the time, the oceanic volcanos I had in mind were the mid-ocean Hawaiian type volcanos (shield volcanos). Architect responded with an overkill of links, which were apparently all calderas in the island arc geologic environment. These are, like Fuji, composed of a more siliceous and more explosive magma composition.

Bottom line: Architect was correct in supplying information that there were indeed oceanic calderas.

You (Percy) picked up on my following sentence, which was actually a little throw away side comment:

Minnemooseus writes:

That magic flood can cause anything, can't it?

This should have been pointed out 9 months ago. I don't know why it wasn't - Perhaps I didn't notice it or the topic was moving so fast that I didn't think it was worth a message.

Anyhow, you largely were mistaken in your jumping on Architects response (or something like that).

Moose


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onlinekk 
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Posts: 3
Joined: 10-28-2010


Message 249 of 445 (588777)
10-28-2010 8:52 AM


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Edited by Admin, : No reason given.


    
Just being real
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 369
Joined: 08-26-2010


Message 250 of 445 (589931)
11-05-2010 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by bluescat48
12-08-2008 10:09 AM


...many believe show causabilty of such a flood versus the simple coincident nature of these data.

I think the notion of a world wide flood is ridiculous. If there had been a global flood the evidence would be seen everywhere. You would expect to see layers upon layers of sedimentary rock in the earths crust, all laid down by water, and each layer would be full of fossils of creatures. And you would expect that all the smaller less mobile creatures to be found closer to the bottom, and as the layers progressed upward, you would find the more mobile life forms.

What's that? The earths crust is full of layers upon layers of sedimentary rock laid down by water? These layers are full of fossils that progress from the less mobile to the more mobile?

Oh... never mind...


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 251 of 445 (589933)
11-05-2010 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Just being real
11-05-2010 6:11 AM


If there had been a global flood the evidence would be seen everywhere. You would expect to see layers upon layers of sedimentary rock in the earths crust ...

No you wouldn't.

Are you nuts?

How would a global flood produce these "layers upon layers"? We know what floods do. One thin layer of mud is all you'd get.

... all laid down by water ...

Which many of them demonstrably aren't.

And you would expect that all the smaller less mobile creatures to be found closer to the bottom, and as the layers progressed upward, you would find the more mobile life forms.

Which is so contrary to observation that your remarks are going to make me giggle intermittently for the next few hours until I fall asleep.

---

Really, if you know nothing at all about geology, which you obviously don't, why do you expose yourself to ridicule by prating in public about geology?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Just being real
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 369
Joined: 08-26-2010


Message 252 of 445 (589945)
11-05-2010 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Dr Adequate
11-05-2010 6:32 AM


No you wouldn't. Are you nuts? How would a global flood produce these "layers upon layers"? We know what floods do. One thin layer of mud is all you'd get.

Your right! How dastardly dumb of me! floods do only produce one thin layer of mud. Just like the one thin layer of mud in this picture laid down by the ensuing flood caused by the erruption of Mt. St. Helen.


This message is a reply to:
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Just being real
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 369
Joined: 08-26-2010


Message 253 of 445 (589949)
11-05-2010 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by Just being real
11-05-2010 8:23 AM


That's odd, why does that picture look strikingly similar to this one?


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 254 of 445 (589951)
11-05-2010 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by Just being real
11-05-2010 8:23 AM


Your right! How dastardly dumb of me! floods do only produce one thin layer of mud. Just like the one thin layer of mud in this picture laid down by the ensuing flood caused by the erruption of Mt. St. Helen.

My emphasis.

Your admission.

Your call.

Oh, and would you show us all the evidence that the eruption of Mt. St. Helens caused a flood? Only we must all have missed it.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 255 of 445 (589953)
11-05-2010 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Just being real
11-05-2010 8:34 AM


That's odd, why does that picture look strikingly similar to this one?

Because the way that non-flood water cuts through volcanic ash looks strikingly similar to the way that non-flood water cuts through sedimentary rocks?

And your point would be ... ?


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