Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?

You make a very good point, Buz.

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

No problem Buz, after all we have been waiting over a half decade for you to present some evidence, a few years more shouldn't make much difference.If you feel though that you present evidence and it just gets waved off then perhaps you can provide us a link to an example. I will be glad to address in far greater detail why I consider some specific piece of evidence as insufficient.

Have you seen Buz present any evidence?

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Hi Fraco. Welcome to EvC. After over three millenniums, what lamb bones left on the ground would you expect to find? Why should pottery be found? left by a relative fast moving troop of people in flight. What should you expect to find from nomads constantly on the move?The Egyptians had a vested interest in admitting nothing of the Exodus and the disastrous results which would expose their vulnerability to their enemies.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

From 1 to 2 million people on the move? A lot of evidence, that's what I'd expect. Which is exactly why the exodus isn't likely to have taken place, remember, they lost their leader and a huge part of their army, not to mention would have an enormous problem with so many people walking out on them production wise. If there were any truth in this, Egypt's enemies would have immediately invaded and taken over. Since this didn;t happen, we can be failry sure the exodus didn't happen as described.

Get serious Buz. Losing a Pharaoh and a whole army can not go unnoticed. They would have had to replace all the weapons, the chariots, the horses, the armor, the food stuff, the wagons, ...Things like that do not go unnoticed nor can they be kept secret.There would have been a regime change, new commanders, new priests, merchants from all over the world lined up to fill the needs. Fast moving? Get serious Buz. If the fable was true they simply could not have moved fast.Did they build fires? If so then they would leave fire pits. Did they not stay in one place for decades? How exactly do you encamp the numbers claimed in the fable in one place for decades without leaving traces?This thread is a place for you to finally present some evidence. You have admitted that you have none regarding the chariot wheels, now do you have any other evidence that might support the Biblical Exodus?If so, here is you chance. Please present it.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

well in that case they could have not mentiond the battle where Ramses II lost a battle against Hittites though true they turned it around and said the gods favored ramses by saving him from being killed they could have done smothing simmilar to the isrealites like the farao threw them out cause they where not worthy to live in egipt.well i guess they dont find any other remanis of any other nomadic tribes whit way less members than 600 000.http://oi.uchicago.edu/pdf/ois5.pdf oo wait they do Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Buz, your entire tenure here (at least what I've seen since you have been a member far longer than myself) has been replete with claims of evidence for things such as the exodus. Now, you keep making excuses why there isn't any evidence.

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Your god believes in Unicorns

Here are some calculations I did considering the sheer amount of people taking part in the exodus, and the impossibility of it all (posted to an earlier thread considering evidence for the historical accuracy of the bible):

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One more thing I'd like to discuss.
What about the sheer amount of people involved. They number in the millions (anyone got a more or less accurate estimate?)

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I did some calculations, If we allow each person a 50 cm by 50 cm square to move in (which I think is way too small, but meh). And given that they would walk in columns of 100 people wide (they really couldn't have done more then that with all the canyons). At 5,000,000 people, this would make it 50 metres wide, by 25 Km long! An average walking speed is about 3-4 Km/hour, this would mean that when the first ones stopped to make up camp, it would take the last people to arive at this camp at least 6 hours to reach the site. At which time the first ones would have to be on the move again (remember, they are being pursued).

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Even at half those people (2,500,000) it would still be 12.5 Km long. That's still 4 hours before the last ones arive.

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That's just undoable, man.

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I never got a reaction from Buz on this. {ABE}: How did I arrive at those numbers of people? Well, there were 600,000 men "able to fight", if I recall correctly. Take them and their wives, that makes 1.2 million. Add their parents and that would make 2.4 million. If the men and women all had 2 children (very little for that time), that would make 3.6 million. at four children (far more reasonable) that would make 4.8 million. That's how I arrived at the 5 million number. But again, even at half that number, which I'm sure is way too little, it's still undoable.Edited by Huntard, : Added {ABE} bit

Well, since no one seems to want to present any evidence, I'll try to address some of the evidence presented online.There is a claim that the altar of the golden calf was found, and that it also showed an Egyptian influence. This is the image used to support that assertion. BUT...that is simply an example of misrepresentation and in fact, doctoring the data.Notice how the area around that image is all dark? That is a technique called burning, used long before there was any digital image technology. It simply wipes out any data that was in the burn area.Here is the actual stone that the above image was taken from. As can be seen in the original, the burned image used as evidence of a man holding up some cow is not that at all. In reality, the rock is covered with a montage of pictures, many of human hunting and male phallic symbols, various antelope, camels, dogs or wolves and geometric designs. There is nothing to suggest that it was ever an "altar" or that it has anything to do with calves, in fact there is not a single calf depicted on the whole face of the rock. The images themselves are common to much of the rock art found all around the Mediterranean from North Africa to Spain.From other sites around the Mediterranean.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

those are some pretty scary numbers. I remember reading that in actual fact, if the numbers spoken of were to have realistically travelled according to what was possible back then over known terrain in known groups, then for the forty odd years they supposedly camped out in the desert, not once would the entire procession be able to stop in one place - as you say, by the time night falls and the guys at the front stop and sleep for eight hours, the guys at the back are only just arriving at a campsite...which is now vacated by the guys at the front.So out in this desert, where they were being relentlessly persued by an army at a snails pace which allowed them apparently decades-worth of potty breaks, if they actually all stopped at once it would be a semi-permanent dwelling-mass as large as a whole country/state of the USA which would have left an indelible mark on the countryside. In short, we'd be picking up middens, cartwheels, firepits, pottery, bones, blankets, skeletons, lost socks, false eyes, wooden legs and all the other detritus that humanity drags around with itself. These sites would be there for centuries, millenia even.So...where are they?quite apart from the fleeing jews, you've got three things happening:1) egypt has been decimated by about a decade of famine and pestilence, culminating in the death of some large part of the population (anything up to let's say 1/4 of the population under 18)
2) egypt just lost faraoh and his armies
3) and on top of that, egypt just lost it's captive workforce, the guys responsible for planting crops, repairing buildings, emptying toilets, manual labour and all the dirty jobs that a civilization like egypt requires to function on a day-to-day basisso, you've decimated the (non-jew) population. you've destroyed her armies and her ruler and gelded the workforce - AFTER a decade of let's say "biological warfare".so, what do you think happens to a country with no workforce, no soldiers, no leaders and no telephone sanitizers?that's right - total collapse. civil war, bloodshed, extinction.So, er, where's this period of failure where the egypt we know and love ceased to be for, oh, let's say 300 years at least, if not for good?

I'll jump into this thread when I find the time as I think it is a topic that comes out fairly often and I think it's time we discuss it at length

Another claim made is that the actual rock that was struck to produce water was found.Here is some of the photographic "evidence" presented. And here are similar rocks from around the world. We can even look at the supposed Altar of the Golden Calf and see the same processes at work, split rocks and wind rounded edges.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

the lowest estimates possible is 600 000 people if you read the word unit not as a Military unit but as family and evan if you half that do to
exaggeration u get 300 000 people. xserksies had at moste 200 000 men at termopolie and after he lost his ships he lost the means to feed and supply his army who can feed 300 000 people in the dessert on the run for 40 years.if 15 peple eat a lamb a day equals to 20000 lambs a day in 15 days 300 000 lambs in a year 6 000 000 000 lambs in 40 years 2400 000 000 000 lambs lets not talk about bread a kilo of flouer for a loaf of bread for 4 people a day, and im guessing that evry oasis they would come across would be drank dry when they left.

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I never got a reaction from Buz on this.

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1. It is considerate to provide a link to msgs referenced in other threads, even if they are your own. Message 109 This allows readers to view the post in context.2. The message in the other thread was a general reply, not a direct reply to Buz.Participants, since this thread is not a continuation thread, please concentrate on the position presented in this thread and not drag in unanswered posts from other threads.As I understand the OP, this thread is for Buz or others who believe the Exodus is an actual historical event to provide evidence that supports their position should they choose to participate. It isn't about Buz answering any unanswered issues from other threads concerning the Exodus. Please direct any comments concerning this Administrative msg to the Report discussion problems here: No.2 thread.

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