Herbal supplements in US commonly have traces of contaminants

Good topic!I've thought about this plenty, and all I can conclude is it's just a ticking time bomb waiting to go off... (some would say it already has in cases like that in r-nator's link)I know some of you don't think too highly about Rx meds due to dangers, side effects, etc, but at least these dangers are studied, tested, and documented (if not before hand, then after as anecdotal evidence becomes available). With naturopathic remedies, there is often no independent testing, and even anecdotal evidence tends to get hand-waved away.In the pharmacy, we're just now able to obtain fairly adequate references as to dosing, safety, and efficacy of (some of) these products, and even then it's sketchy at best. Some products have absolutely nothing to describe them save for what they've historically been used for. Patients then ask if they can take Blackwortyeastian with their Wellbutrin, and all I can do is ... *shrug*.It's the epitome of frustration that these things are not regulated.Have a good one.

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"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964

Hey Buz, sorry for the delayed reply... Sorry, I should have been less vague. I meant only those substances approximating chemical action when taken internally, or those claimed by mfrs. to approximate chemical action when taken internally. I'm not getting what you mean by this: do you mean the reverse? That FDA and polititians are in the pharms' pockets? If that's the case (as I assume) I'd disagree--otherwise, nothing would ever be recalled or withdrawn. We see this all the time. I think someone else here brought up the point that the herbal markets are largely already controlled by big pharma, but your deliberate downplaying of "one or two deaths" from a certain herb is very telling, Buz. Your bias makes you blind to the fact that "one or two deaths" (this is the understatement of the decade) should be considered very serious. Moreover, "one or two" deaths due to any cause which could be at least partially remedied by regulation should be reason enough to do so, wouldn't you agree? Or are "one or two" deaths OK by you? Has it not reached the threshold for regulation yet?Since you're fond of red herrings, how's this for one example: what would happen if the beef industry weren't regulated in the US? I'm not saying herbals or living natural should be banned, Buz. You should both be proud of your health, and I, for one, am glad pharms didn't "do you in" 40 years ago. But you should know I've talked to many anti-Buzzes at work and at play who've almost been "done in" by herbals, and have nothing but accolades for their meds controlling everything from arrhythmia to modern-day leprosy. Yours is one viewpoint. You mean that little tiny writing on the side that is referenced by the little tiny asterisk after the big bolded claim of effectiveness on the front of the bottle? The one no one really notices, or, if they have their reading glasses with them, really cares about? The one that sometimes gets covered up when the other end of the label wraps around the bottle too far? Yes, you're correct, Buz. That warning is there, and I emphasize this whenever I'm asked (after the obligatory, professional *shrug*) if this "goes with the yellow pills that I take."The problem is that not everyone is as astute as you are with these chemicals. And they are chemicals, regardless of what you'd like to claim (baselessly, I'd add). No offense, Buz, but why would you hear about anything other than only the most serious (aka deaths) consequences of supplement usage? Who do you think hears about the additive side effects of herbals with Rx meds, decrease in effectiveness of Rx meds due to herbals, or decline in general health due to the fact that a patient, unbeknownst to their healthcare providers, decided to discontinue their heart meds in lieu of hawthorne, of all things?! I'll give you a hint: that person rhymes with "smarmacist". Buz, you seem to see this as an "us vs. them" thing, here. No reasonable people, including myself, will say that the pharmaceutical industry (incl. the testing and regulation of medications) is perfect--far from it. Many improvements can be made to ensure the safety and effectiveness of drug therapy. Would you have it any other way?But the same arguments you use against pharmaceuticals can be equally made against herbals. To that end, it really becomes a question of scale. So many fewer people use herbals than pharmaceuticals that of course you'd expect to see many, many more deaths than those due to herbals. The difference here is that the literature which accompanies pharmaceuticals (which are regulated) are literally covered in big, bold, black info boxes if that medication has even a sub-1% chance of causing anything harmful or untoward. I'd call that very visible full disclosure, and it's something that's woefully, reprehensibly lacking in the supplement market (small print disclaimers aside ).I guess it just all comes down to values. Why should even just one death not gain the attention of those intent on regulation, Buz? Your objections seem misguided.Have a good one.

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"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964

And Avandia will be withdrawn from the market, as it should be. Call it knee-jerk and reactionary, but regardless of whether they should have entered the market or not, pharmaceutical regulation works, albeit imperfectly.

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"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964