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Author Topic:   Is there any proof of beneficial mutations?
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2127 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 57 of 166 (579947)
09-06-2010 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Wounded King
09-06-2010 5:30 PM


Re: Genetic basis of third molar agenesis
Even given that Schraf's lack of lower wisdom teeth is the result of a novel mutation there is no evidence that it is beneficial in evolutionary terms simply because Schraf prefers not to undergo multiple painful dental surgeries. Certainly untreated impacted wisdom teeth can cause death so I can see a 'just so' rationale for it being beneficial, but this is far from being a certitude.
The lack of third molars can be beneficial in certain circumstances.
However, in most societies around the world, and for most of history, I doubt that they would have been so much of a problem.
Normal dental wear, eating normal prehistoric foods, causes some flexing of the teeth in the gums and this causes what is called interproximal wear. When the teeth are used properly this wear is just enough to reduce the space between adjacent teeth slightly due to abrasion, and through mesial drift the teeth move forward slightly. This allows enough room for the third molar to fit.
With our modern diets of soft processed foods, the interproximal wear is insufficient, and there is often not enough room for the third molars.
I suspect, based on the percentage of people missing third molars, that there was a mutation somewhere along the line but that there was insufficient selection pressure to either eliminate that mutation or to cause it to spread to all members of the population.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Wounded King, posted 09-06-2010 5:30 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2127 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 94 of 166 (580556)
09-10-2010 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by dennis780
09-09-2010 11:57 PM


Creation "science" on display
The fossil record is a joke, a 30 pieces to a million piece puzzle, a total lack of undisputed examples (fossilized or living) of the millions of transitional forms (missing links) required for evolution to be true.
Undisputed? By who? Creationists?
The "teach the controversy" nonsense we get from creationists means nothing in terms of science. It is pure religious apologetics. Means nothing in the real world, where evidence matters.
Have you ever studied the fossil record? I did, all the way through my Ph.D. exams. You are trying to peddle creationist nonsense to those who know the field, and know you're peddling nonsense. You should be embarassed!
And you should realize that those creation "science" websites are lying to you.
Radiocarbon dating methods that constantly contradict each other. The dating methods that evolutionists rely upon to assign millions and billions of years to rocks are very inconsistent and based on unproven (and questionable) assumptions...
The dating methods are based on assumptions that are consistent with the evidence, unlike the arguments put forward by creationists who don't know the difference between radiocarbon dating (used for once-living things within the past 50,000 years) and other forms of radiometric dating that can be applied to rocks. If you don't even know this very basic fact, why should we consider anything else you say to be worth anything? And if you are this ignorant of the details of radiometric dating, how do you know the assumptions that you find so repugnant really are unfounded? You only know because some creation "science" website told you so (and they are lying to you).
...and an even worse explanation for the first living organism (abiogenesis) that would require a complexity that you couldn't devise if you spent your entire life on it, but it happened by chance.
That is what your religious belief teaches you. (What else that they teach you is false?)
You are no more believer than I, other than your beliefs are naturalistic. If evolution were 100% true, then there would not be HUNDREDS of books published to the contrary, and this forum would be dead fuckin quiet.
The HUNDREDS of books mean nothing if they are not based on evidence. We are back to that "teach the controversy" nonsense that creation "scientists" tried for a while. Just because there are two sides doesn't mean both sides are of equal merit. How do you feel about a flat earth? There are books supporting that nonsense. How about the "faked" moon landings? There are books supporting that also. There are books on hollow earth, Atlantis, the Velikovski nonsense, and no telling what else.
Means nothing.
How about returning to the topic now? Remember, beneficial mutations?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by dennis780, posted 09-09-2010 11:57 PM dennis780 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by greyseal, posted 09-10-2010 3:13 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 164 by dennis780, posted 09-21-2010 5:54 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2127 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 148 of 166 (580985)
09-12-2010 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by ICdesign
09-12-2010 7:01 PM


New and better function
Show me an animal that has a new and better function over its relatives that is a result of the evolution of the past several thousand years. Lets see some evidence like that.
Click to enlarge.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by ICdesign, posted 09-12-2010 7:01 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
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