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Humans faults and evolutionary biology

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Author Topic:   Humans faults and evolutionary biology
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 20 of 40 (572526)
08-06-2010 10:17 AM 		Reply to: Message 19 by Kairyu
08-06-2010 8:46 AM

I'm still not clear what problem you have?
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Maybe if you tried explaining your issue in other words it might help.
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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 Message 19 by Kairyu, posted 08-06-2010 8:46 AM Kairyu has not replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 30 of 40 (575563)
08-20-2010 1:44 PM 		Reply to: Message 29 by Kairyu
08-20-2010 1:29 PM

Evil is something a given society determines and has nothing to do with biological evolution. Good or Evil are purely human constructs.
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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 Message 29 by Kairyu, posted 08-20-2010 1:29 PM Kairyu has replied
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 Message 31 by Kairyu, posted 09-05-2010 4:33 PM jar has replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 32 of 40 (579690)
09-05-2010 4:51 PM 		Reply to: Message 31 by Kairyu
09-05-2010 4:33 PM

Such a message denies mainstream christian dogma.
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Good. Lots of "mainstream dogma" needs to be denied and quite honestly, ridiculed.
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If I am going to believe in a christian god, there must be a higher law of good and evil.
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Why? Haven't you read the Bible?
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quote:
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
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And what I am pondering is if our base natural behavior(if you believe god had a hand in evolution, or at least wanted it to occur) as explained by evolution and old earth science(which I believe in) does reflect this, or that it's amoral, or a mix of both.
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What base natural behavior?
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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 Message 31 by Kairyu, posted 09-05-2010 4:33 PM Kairyu has not replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 34 of 40 (580522)
09-09-2010 4:22 PM 		Reply to: Message 33 by Kairyu
09-09-2010 4:18 PM

And about base behaviour: General humans behaviour is based on A upbringing and B biological factors. Well, I'm talking about the B. It's generally a fact that all humans share some stereotypical behaviour and traits. That's what I meant.
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And what are those stereotypical behaviors and traits?
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AbE:
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Although you're right: the basic belief of humans developing intelligence, and a sense of good and evil, goes right against that bible quote and story, which states that humans were innocent, but they ate from the tree which gave them knowledge. It may have been a explanation, but I agree that this is problematic.
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Actually, the story never describes them as being innocent, more like amoral.
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One of the important parts of the Garden of Eden story is the difference between an amoral society like we see in the other animals and the morality based society of humans.
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Edited by jar, : add material
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Kairyu, posted 09-09-2010 4:18 PM Kairyu has not replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 36 of 40 (580618)
09-10-2010 10:48 AM 		Reply to: Message 35 by Kairyu
09-10-2010 10:28 AM

I do not exactly know how all traits work. But I am suspecting a few of these traits to be amoral. Just look at the things a humans can do when (s)he's in love with somebody, or just sexually attracted. Domination behaviour also occurs. Anger(and irrational behavior because of it) is also a big one. Basically some animals traits that are still there in altered form. We might be able to suppress it to a extent, but it's there.
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First, there is no concept of sin in amorality. It is simply impossible to sin or even do wrong in amorality. If a lion kills cubs that he did not father it is not wrong in an amoral sense. It is just what lions do.
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In regards on your second part, I am curious at your exact beliefs. I'm still not sure if your agree with me or not.
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For my personal beliefs, take a look in the section Columnist and read Belief Statement - jar and jar - On Christianity.
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Do you believe humans to be amoral or moral? Are we really so different and above animals? We might possess high intelligence, but could it be that behind that, some of our behavior and actions are still caused by lingering amoral instincts, including ''sinful'' behavior? And if I suppose this problem is real, how can you rationally explain it?
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Humans are not above animals and morality, immorality and amorality are simply human constructs. Humans themselves are not any of those, their behavior and judgments are.
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Our sinful behavior is because we choose to behave sinfully. Claiming it is because of some "nature" is just an excuse, a cop out.
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And also... if it was a plan, god also would have foreseen sin arising. But yet, he seems to be disappointed in humans. Numerous stories in the bible point to this. Not to mention a few instances of a ''lake of fire'' are mentioned. And of course Jesus's sacrifice to cleanse this sin. I'm okay with that, but why make humans that would be sinful in the first place?
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Well, I don't think Jesus death was the sacrifice. That has never made any sense to me. Anyone born dies. Jesus was doomed to die the minute he was born. And a God that knowing creates critters that he will later condemn to hell can only be described as evil.
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I personally don't believe in such a God.
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Kairyu, posted 09-10-2010 10:28 AM Kairyu has not replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 38 of 40 (581099)
09-13-2010 4:58 PM 		Reply to: Message 37 by Kairyu
09-13-2010 4:16 PM

if morality is a human construct, does that point to us being designed?
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Not at all. The fact that morality is a human construct and that it changes over time simply points to humans being able to learn and pass knowledge down over time.
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Does human behavior makes sense, as in being created by a perfect god?
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What possible connection could there be between a perfect god (whatever that means) and human behavior?
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Kairyu, posted 09-13-2010 4:16 PM Kairyu has not replied
  
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