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Junior Member (Idle past 5037 days) Posts: 14 From: Lebanon Township, New Jersey, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Joseppi Member (Idle past 4965 days) Posts: 50 From: New Albany, In, USA Joined: |
jar said:
quote:You use a lot of poor excuses. I don't read or speak new speak so your argument here is silly. Create...form...make. These can share definitions. And, they have definitions they don't share. Spelling has nothing to do with what I said. It is quite simple.It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English and to re-translate as you wish so as to pretense one's self to be correct. Others also don't realize that the LORD God who put the Bible together speaks perfect English and specifies all his terms and meanings. Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6
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Hi NOMA,
Welcome to EvC.
NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN writes: That said you dont need to be a bible scholar or fundamentalist to have a reading ability of an eleven year old. A lot of people think an education or a degree qualifies them to understand the Bible. But the Bible declares that it is spiritually deserned. Now I disagree with your presentation of what is written in Genesis chapter 1 and 2 and would love to discuss it with you. I have a thread Here where I have affirmed that there are 2 creations presented in Genesis chapter 1 and 2. If you care to discuss this topic with a litteral fundamentalist please join me there, and refute my affirmations. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Joseppi,
Joseppi writes: Heaven is not capitalized until the eighth verse.The heaven and the earth were created in the beginning recorded in the first verse. The heaven in that first verse is singular and there was no division into the other two heavens at that time. Heaven in capitalized in verse eighth to inform the believer that God's intention was to eventually put his throne on earth and dwell there. I did study Biblical Hebrew in Bible college. The original had no vowels, no spaces, no verses, no chapters and no capitals. Any capital letters in the OT was provided by the translators. ANy chapters and verses was provided by the translators. Any vowels was provided by the Masorets. BTW the throne of God will not exist on this earth. It will exist on the New Earth in the New Heaven of Revelation. The throne of David will be restored and Jesus will rule over the earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You said:
Joseppi writes: Heaven is not capitalized until the eighth verse.The heaven and the earth were created in the beginning recorded in the first verse. The heaven in that first verse is singular and there was no division into the other two heavens at that time. Heaven in capitalized in verse eighth to inform the believer that God's intention was to eventually put his throne on earth and dwell there. First, Hebrew did not have either case (upper and lower case) or punctuation so there was no distinction based on capitalization. Second, there is NOTHING in Genesis 1 related to "God's intention was to eventually put his throne on earth and dwell there." That is just stuff you are making up. Here is Genesis 1:
quote: There is nothing in there to support your assertion. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Joseppi Member (Idle past 4965 days) Posts: 50 From: New Albany, In, USA Joined: |
Noma&Nopaakaan Orphan said:
quote:This is a good point. And, athough one might pick at this poster for attitude, nevertheless, an intelligent person would admit that the OP was merely the pontification of a popular assumption, since, as the above quoted poster said, where's the evidence? As for me the evidence is in English, and is found in the Bible I read and it isn't difficult to understand it as some here seem to find it.
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Huh?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Joseppi Member (Idle past 4965 days) Posts: 50 From: New Albany, In, USA Joined: |
quote:I don't believe the Hebrews had no way to express titles, names etc. Your idea that if Hebrews didn't capitalize letters then no translated text should have them is ludicrous. quote:You would have a better argument than, assuming I made something up, if you explained why it is indeed capitalized. And further, why you assume it means nothing. I didn't expect you to grasp the understanding since you may not be well read with respect to the Bible. And, you seem to have great difficulty with a plethora of simple English usage. Anyway, the Hebrew this or that argument carries no weight with me, because I think it is certain that you have no understanding of Hebrew comparable to any of the translators of the Bible I read. Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Joseppi writes:
On the contrary, parallelism is a common rhetorical device in English as it is in Hebrew. It's often used to show subtle differences of viewpoint but not fundamental differences of meaning. When three similar appearing words are found in an English text that was written by one who knows English, the use of the words are defined not by the redundancies that they share but the differences as per context. Another example is:
quote:The differences are subtle, not fundamental. Joseppi writes:
Isaiah 43 doesn't say anything of the sort. That's just an interpretation that you're putting on it.
In that quote of Isaiah 43:7 ...created means the soul was brought into existence. formed: means the body was shaped and constructed. made: means the God did all the work associated with the final result. Which includes bringing the man to life. Joseppi writes:
In fact, that's exactly what it's saying, classical parallelism.
It isn't saying, I made him, I made him, yea, I made him. Joseppi writes:
Please stop trying to use English punctuation to understand a Hebrew text. The semicolon isn't even there in most translations. The semicolon is the clue that the last clause merely concludes the thought of the preceeding clauses. Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I don't believe the Hebrews had no way to express titles, names etc. Your idea that if Hebrews didn't capitalize letters then no translated text should have them is ludicrous. I never said that translated texts should not use capitals, I said that the Hebrews did not use case sensitive letters or punctuation.
You would have a better argument than, assuming I made something up, if you explained why it is indeed capitalized. And further, why you assume it means nothing. I didn't expect you to grasp the understanding since you may not be well read with respect to the Bible. And, you seem to have great difficulty with a plethora of simple English usage. Anyway, the Hebrew this or that argument carries no weight with me, because I think it is certain that you have no understanding of Hebrew comparable to any of the translators of the Bible I read. Please look and you will see that I included the full text of Genesis 1. There is NOTHING in Genesis 1 related to "God's intention was to eventually put his throne on earth and dwell there." That is just stuff you are making up.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Joseppi Member (Idle past 4965 days) Posts: 50 From: New Albany, In, USA Joined: |
Jar said:
quote:Concerning putting the throne of God on the earth. Well, that is what the end of the matter is all about as the book of the Revelation reveals, and with which it closes the Bible. Solomon was fully aware of this and speaks of it in his discourse and prayer at the dedication of the temple.One reason David was said to be a man after God's own heart is because David realized that building a permanent temple was a wise thing to do. Previous to that, in the course of revelations from God, when God brought the children of Abraham out from Egypt by use of Moses, then he taught them they were a church and he commanded Moses to build the tabernacle tent that moved from place to place. In the same way that the dove found no rest until it found an olive branch, and in the same way the dove that was the manifestation of the Holy Ghost rested upon the man Jesus of Nazareth, so, the tabernacle of God moved about until a resting place was found. This is one of the main revelations of the Bible. Which is why is noted so early in the message. For the temple of God, where his throne is, involves not only the physical manifestation of a final temple upon the earth, but also in the heart of them that receive him by faith. So, your notion that there is nothing involved deeper than you have thus far surmised is simply, ignorance. Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Add blank lines.
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Good grief. We are talking about Genesis 1 & 2.
I repeat, there is NOTHING in Genesis 1 related to your assertion that "God's intention was to eventually put his throne on earth and dwell there. " Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Joseppi,
Joseppi writes: You would have a better argument than, assuming I made something up, if you explained why it is indeed capitalized. It was capitalized because those who translated the Bible from Hebrew to English decided it should be capitalized. It was not capitalized for any other reason. So yep you are making things up. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Joseppi Member (Idle past 4965 days) Posts: 50 From: New Albany, In, USA Joined: |
Someone asked about which heaven is which.
As Solomon said, the heaven, and the heaven of heavens, cannot contain God. This is a quote that shows that the sky is one heaven, the outer space is another, and the heaven of heavens is where God's throne was originally and still is until after the great white throne judgment. Genesis verse one is the heaven where God dwelt with his hosts of heaven, where the rebellion against God began. The deep was a deep well in that heaven filled with many waters (metaphically means many opinions).The earth was at the bottom of that deep place and sat as described in verse two, in darkness without light, void of life, and unformed as is a lump of clay awaiting a potter. The earth was created at the same time as the heaven of verse one, because God was prepared with all his legal evidences before any rebellion against his throne ensued. The earth was left in it's basest form and condition because by it's being the most base of all things created, it was the perfect legal device to prove that the seeming foolishness (as men think) and foolish things of God are wiser than any of the highminded rebels. Thus, by setting his seal to the clay he evidences his truth's in the clay man, Jesus of Nazareth and thusly, legally exposes and disposes of all rebellion in an orderly way. Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Add blank lines.
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But none of that is in Genesis 1.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Joseppi Member (Idle past 4965 days) Posts: 50 From: New Albany, In, USA Joined: |
quote:And I pointed out how your statement carried no logical weight. Get over it and move on. quote:And I appreciate anyone who publishes the Bible. thanks. quote:And you are making up the notion that I'm making things up. You see? It's not an argument to make unsubstantiated claims. In case you are not aware of this, I am pleased to inform you that the Bible is a teaching. That is why God created all things in six twenty-four hour days. He wasn't showing off. He could've done in no time at all. Or, he could've taken his sweet time. But, he did it in the manner described in Genesis to teach man a thing or two. Now I know this is of no interest to you but, that has nothing to do with the Bible. If you want to pretend nothing is being taught or meant and have concluded that it's all a fable then you are free to remain in the dark. It's your choice. But, as for any logical argument of merit? well...you haven't made any and it should be noted I think. Anyone can make endless claims as to what they opinionate about whatever. so what? Opinions is that thing I care least about, so you're going to have to do better I think. Edited by Joseppi, : No reason given.
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