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Author Topic:   Evolving the Musculoskeletal System
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 256 of 527 (581625)
09-16-2010 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by ICdesign
09-16-2010 4:15 PM


Re: Round two
The cosmological model of eternal inflation and the transition from chance to biological evolution in the history of life.
Ok, this paper is in Biology Direct, thanks.
The cosmological model of eternal inflation and the transition from chance to biological evolution in the history of life - PubMed
quote:
The "many worlds in one" (hereinafter MWO) model makes the startling prediction that all macroscopic, "coarse-grain" histories of events that are not forbidden by conservation laws of physics have realized (or will realize) somewhere in the infinite universe, and not just once but an infinite number of times [1,2].
I don't see a lot of support in this paper for your position, frankly. What Koonin is saying here is not that life is improbable, it's that life is inevitable under the widely-held cosmological assumption of eternal inflation and deflation.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 257 of 527 (581626)
09-16-2010 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by ICdesign
09-16-2010 4:21 PM


Re: Round two
Right, and according to Koonin, because the probability is not zero, it will inevitably happen an infinite number of times in an eternally inflating and deflating universe.
Koonin's paper, in other words, reaches the exact opposite conclusion as you portray.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by ICdesign, posted 09-16-2010 4:21 PM ICdesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by ICdesign, posted 09-16-2010 4:39 PM crashfrog has replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4797 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 258 of 527 (581628)
09-16-2010 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Theodoric
09-16-2010 4:20 PM


Re: Round two
Maybe you could have an original thought sometime
May 31, 2007 paper published by Eugene V. Koonin of the National Center for
Biotechnology Information.
Are you saying this is a falsified paper? What do you mean original thought. I never claimed this was MY information.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Theodoric, posted 09-16-2010 4:20 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Theodoric, posted 09-16-2010 4:34 PM ICdesign has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 259 of 527 (581629)
09-16-2010 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by ICdesign
09-16-2010 2:29 PM


Cut and paste source found
Found it.
Cut and paste from Conservapedia. Then again Conservapedia might have swiped it from someone.
But you didn't get it from Conservapedia did you. You got it from the other forum I mentioned earlier. Want to know how I know?
At Conservapedia the foot note is 18. On the other forum the foot note is 2 just like your post.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 260 of 527 (581630)
09-16-2010 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by ICdesign
09-16-2010 4:30 PM


It is proper to cite
If you cut and paste something it is necessary to give credit. Anything else is dishonest.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by ICdesign, posted 09-16-2010 4:30 PM ICdesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by ICdesign, posted 09-16-2010 4:46 PM Theodoric has replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4797 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 261 of 527 (581631)
09-16-2010 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by crashfrog
09-16-2010 4:29 PM


Re: Round two
it will inevitably happen an infinite number of times in an eternally inflating and deflating universe.
This is funny. Not only did the impossible happen but it could happen an infinite number of times.
Yeah, OK Crashfrog whatever you say. As always, your saying it makes it true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by crashfrog, posted 09-16-2010 4:29 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by jar, posted 09-16-2010 4:44 PM ICdesign has not replied
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 262 of 527 (581632)
09-16-2010 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by ICdesign
09-16-2010 4:39 PM


Re: Round two
The topic, in case you missed it, involves evolving the Musculoskeletal System.
The first life and in fact most life even today is unrelated to the topic.
However, embryology certainly should help you. The Musculoskeletal System evolved from undifferentiated cells over time.
It really is that simple.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 261 by ICdesign, posted 09-16-2010 4:39 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4797 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 263 of 527 (581633)
09-16-2010 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Theodoric
09-16-2010 4:34 PM


Re: It is proper to cite
If you cut and paste something it is necessary to give credit. Anything else is dishonest.
I see what your saying. I should have credited where I got the article. ten4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Theodoric, posted 09-16-2010 4:34 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 264 of 527 (581634)
09-16-2010 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by ICdesign
09-16-2010 4:46 PM


Re: It is proper to cite
I suggest you do so. It seems the guy you got it from is pretty clueless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by ICdesign, posted 09-16-2010 4:46 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4797 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 265 of 527 (581636)
09-16-2010 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Percy
09-02-2010 8:22 AM


Re: Seeking to understand basis for incredulity
OK, moving on...
Percy writes:
With complex creatures new body parts are not going to evolve because they would provide no advantage.
I am curious about this statement. Isn't a fish a complex creature? Wasn't the Ape already complex when we evolved from it?
Edited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Percy, posted 09-02-2010 8:22 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Theodoric, posted 09-16-2010 5:03 PM ICdesign has replied
 Message 280 by Percy, posted 09-17-2010 5:39 AM ICdesign has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 266 of 527 (581638)
09-16-2010 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by ICdesign
09-16-2010 4:58 PM


No. Not move on
Are you going to even address what Crashfrog and Taq have said in response to you cut and paste assertion? First you cut and paste, then you do not even acknowledge who you stole it from. Then when you are shown that the paper doesn't even say what you claim it does you just want to drop it and move on.
Defend your assertion or admit you do not even have a clue what the paper even said.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by ICdesign, posted 09-16-2010 4:58 PM ICdesign has replied

Replies to this message:
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ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4797 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 267 of 527 (581643)
09-16-2010 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Theodoric
09-16-2010 5:03 PM


Re: No. Not move on
Defend your assertion or admit you do not even have a clue what the paper even said.
The requirements for the emergence of a primitive, coupled replication-translation
system, which is considered a candidate for the breakthrough stage in this paper,
are much greater. At a minimum, spontaneous formation of: - two rRNAs with a
total size of at least 1000 nucleotides - ~10 primitive adaptors of ~30 nucleotides
each, in total, ~300 nucleotides - at least one RNA encoding a replicase, ~500
nucleotides (low bound) is required. In the above notation, n = 1800, resulting in E
<10-1018.
This is from the paper. Look it up yourself, I gave you the references.
If you guys disagree the chance of life occurring by natural processes is 1 in 10 followed by 1018 zeros then post what you come up with.
I got it from http://www.intelligent-design-evidence.com/origins

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Replies to this message:
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ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4797 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 268 of 527 (581645)
09-16-2010 5:34 PM


moving along
OK, moving on...
Percy writes:
With complex creatures new body parts are not going to evolve because they would provide no advantage.
I am curious about this statement. Isn't a fish a complex creature? Wasn't the Ape already complex when we evolved from it?

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Strongbow, posted 09-16-2010 5:39 PM ICdesign has replied

  
Strongbow
Junior Member (Idle past 4909 days)
Posts: 26
Joined: 09-16-2010


Message 269 of 527 (581646)
09-16-2010 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by ICdesign
09-16-2010 5:34 PM


Re: moving along
quote:
I am curious about this statement. Isn't a fish a complex creature? Wasn't the Ape already complex when we evolved from it?
What new body parts did we eveolve from the other apes? Our morphology is very similar indeed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by ICdesign, posted 09-16-2010 5:34 PM ICdesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by ICdesign, posted 09-16-2010 5:48 PM Strongbow has replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4797 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 270 of 527 (581647)
09-16-2010 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Strongbow
09-16-2010 5:39 PM


Re: moving along
Strongbow writes:
What new body parts did we eveolve from the other apes? Our morphology is very similar indeed.
I know we have more bones in our feet. I would have to do some research as to the differences from us and Apes.
Just for simplicity lets start back at the fish and go from there.
Thanks,
IC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Strongbow, posted 09-16-2010 5:39 PM Strongbow has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Coyote, posted 09-16-2010 5:51 PM ICdesign has replied
 Message 272 by Strongbow, posted 09-16-2010 5:56 PM ICdesign has replied

  
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