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Author Topic:   Separation of church and state
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 302 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 235 of 313 (580770)
09-11-2010 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by marc9000
09-10-2010 8:53 PM


Re: Know what you are talking about
It existed, it was probably debated amongst the founders. It existed in the thoughts of Jefferson and 1 or 2 other founders. It didn’t exist in an important sense to most of the founders, or it would be in the Constitution.
It is. It's called the First Amendment. You know, the one that, amongst other things, separates Church and State?
If you merely wish to quibble that that phrase is not in the Constitution, then I would point out that neither is the phrase "separation of powers". But the principle is.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 302 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 236 of 313 (580771)
09-11-2010 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by marc9000
09-10-2010 9:13 PM


When objective evidence of human behavior shows that special rights for homosexuals could very well be a burden on a society that is already trillions of dollars in debt, the core of the problem could very well be the religion of humanism, and those who choose it.
May I take it that, as you are a religious conservative, you are using the term "special rights" to mean "exactly the same rights as heterosexuals already have"?
If it costs money to grant people these rights (and you have neither provided evidence for this nor given the faintest hint as to why you think it might be true) then I would point out that homosexuals are a fairly small minority, and that you could save even more money by depriving heterosexuals of their rights.

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 Message 219 by marc9000, posted 09-10-2010 9:13 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 302 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 263 of 313 (581677)
09-16-2010 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by marc9000
09-16-2010 7:46 PM


Re: Combined response #2
It’s like everyone telling me that the word separation is in the first amendment.
It is not true that everyone has told you that. For example, no-one participating in this thread has told you that.
Could you try to be a little more truthful?

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 302 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 268 of 313 (583373)
09-26-2010 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by marc9000
09-26-2010 3:44 PM


Re: Combined response
So, nothing here about the doctrine of separation?
OK, I think we're done.
Perhaps if you now wish to be wrong about biology instead you could start a thread in the science section.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by marc9000, posted 09-26-2010 3:44 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 302 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 272 of 313 (583430)
09-27-2010 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by marc9000
09-26-2010 3:44 PM


Re: Combined response
One example is William B. Provine, professor of biological science at Cornell. He notes that at the beginning of his class about 75% of his students "were either creationists or believed in purposive evolution" guided by God or a divine power. Research on his incisive, direct, hard-hitting teaching on origins (how students often describe his lectures) reveals that the number of creationists and those who "believed in purposive evolution" dropped to about 50% by the end of the course.[8] No one has hauled him into court for his openly indoctrinating students in atheism, and indeed, scientists in general have applauded him.
A fine example of creationist dishonesty.
The evidence presented shows that a teacher of biology by teaching biology made people less ignorant of biology.
But not one shred of evidence that:
(a) He said one single word in favor of atheism.
(b) One single one of his students became an atheist as a result of his teaching.
But besides all that, Cornell University is a private institution. It can't violate the separation of Church and State any more than Bob Jones University can. Their teachers do not get "dragged into court" for really teaching their religious views. (Nor has anyone suggested that they should be.) And yet creationists whine that Provine hasn't been "dragged into court" for allegedly teaching his.
So even if the unevidenced creationist fantasies about him "openly indoctrinating students in atheism" were by some bizarre fluke true (rather then being an example of the usual dishonest creationist gibberish that equates biological knowledge with atheism) this would still have damn-all to do with the separation doctrine.
So how about you get back on topic and post something that does?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by marc9000, posted 09-26-2010 3:44 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 302 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 285 of 313 (583543)
09-27-2010 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by marc9000
09-27-2010 7:54 PM


Private
419.1 million, FEDERAL funding?
Yes, the government can pay a private institution to do research, development, or indeed practically anything else. That doesn't magically make it into a federal agency.
Incidentally, what are your thoughts on Faith-Based Initiatives? If a church gets money from the government to (e.g.) run a drug rehabilitation program, does it thereby become a public institution, or does it continue to be an independent organization ... a church, as it were, separate from the state?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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