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Author Topic:   Existence After Death
AricVader
Junior Member (Idle past 4850 days)
Posts: 6
From: Grand River, Iowa, United States
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 1 of 163 (581286)
09-14-2010 9:56 PM


I would like to open with the fact that I have followed many threads on EvC for nearly a year now. I really love the knowledge here and see many smart individuals out there that have helped me understand quite a bit. This is my first post and I would like some answers on what I think and what others think about. Here goes.
I have never really been a Christian because of all the claims made and how many can be falsified but I have always considered myself and very spiritual person. I have the tendency to think deeply about many of life's grand questions and one of them has been "life" after death.
The conclusion I have come to is that our reality is made of energy and matter. If everything is energy and matter then thought and memory would have to be a form of energy. Now, I like to think that in death these energies just change form (energy cannot be created or destroyed) and one simply enters a different state of mind so to speak. More recently I have began to dissect this conclusion and believe there are some flaws with it but would like to see some facts on it (for or against) or different logical approaches.
So if anyone has any facts or comments on this issue that may be able to help me understand the issue more I would appreciate the information. Above all I will always try to strive for the truth even if I do not like where it leads me.
P.S. The whole idea that there is "nothing" after death seems very logical to me as well but is a bit disheartening.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Larni, posted 09-16-2010 5:29 AM AricVader has replied
 Message 4 by frako, posted 09-16-2010 12:48 PM AricVader has not replied
 Message 6 by Jon, posted 09-16-2010 3:48 PM AricVader has not replied
 Message 8 by Taq, posted 09-16-2010 4:18 PM AricVader has not replied
 Message 9 by cavediver, posted 09-16-2010 5:30 PM AricVader has not replied
 Message 15 by lfen, posted 09-17-2010 12:55 AM AricVader has not replied
 Message 36 by Rahvin, posted 09-17-2010 3:17 PM AricVader has replied
 Message 46 by Woodsy, posted 09-18-2010 7:01 AM AricVader has not replied
 Message 58 by seanfhear, posted 10-08-2010 5:16 PM AricVader has not replied
 Message 83 by 1.61803, posted 10-12-2010 6:42 PM AricVader has not replied

  
AricVader
Junior Member (Idle past 4850 days)
Posts: 6
From: Grand River, Iowa, United States
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 10 of 163 (581683)
09-16-2010 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Larni
09-16-2010 5:29 AM


Yeah, it was this comparison to how a computer works that got me thinking that my conclusion was wrong. While I do believe that there is nothing after death, I do hope that I am wrong. Maybe there is something underlying that has not been scientifically witnessed yet, similar to how general relativity changed Newtonian Physics. I can always hope.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Larni, posted 09-16-2010 5:29 AM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Theodoric, posted 09-16-2010 10:53 PM AricVader has replied

  
AricVader
Junior Member (Idle past 4850 days)
Posts: 6
From: Grand River, Iowa, United States
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 11 of 163 (581684)
09-16-2010 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by greyseal
09-16-2010 2:39 PM


Re: it's not the energy, it's the structure
While I like to think one of these two possibilities is how it is, I have to agree with Jon on the clone idea. Unless a clone is made after you die and possesses all the memories up until your death, You will know the difference and know that your clone is not "you".
For example, if I see an identical me across the room that is the same as me in every way, he may think everything exactly as I do but my mind will still be my own and his mind will still be his own.
P. S. Does anyone know of any scientific experiments on the subject? Maybe measure changes in different forms of energy after death. I have heard of experiments that measure mass change at point of death but that has only been by word of mouth, I could never find any trustworthy sources.

This message is a reply to:
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AricVader
Junior Member (Idle past 4850 days)
Posts: 6
From: Grand River, Iowa, United States
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 17 of 163 (581707)
09-17-2010 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Theodoric
09-16-2010 10:53 PM


It is not so much that I want to live forever, it is more that I would like there to be something other than nothing. When I think of nothing, I suspect it is just like a void in which who we are and our uniqueness disappears forever.
Maybe I suffer from the vanity that many creationist tend to have and don't like the idea of being an insignificant little blip in the grandness of space and the massive magnitudes of time. I will have to think about that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Theodoric, posted 09-16-2010 10:53 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by hooah212002, posted 09-17-2010 11:37 AM AricVader has not replied
 Message 26 by Theodoric, posted 09-17-2010 12:45 PM AricVader has not replied

  
AricVader
Junior Member (Idle past 4850 days)
Posts: 6
From: Grand River, Iowa, United States
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 42 of 163 (581904)
09-18-2010 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Rahvin
09-17-2010 3:17 PM


Well said, and the analogy to a computer is the reason I have come to doubt that my conclusion was false. I did realize that maybe thought wasn't energy, but wanted to see others views on it before giving up on the logic.
I agree with much of what you said about not fearing immortality and not getting bored. I would also like the preserve the original me and not just a copy. But I do not think I would mind a post-death clone that has all my memories up until death. It would be a deception for my clone thinking it was the original that way, more like a reincarnation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Rahvin, posted 09-17-2010 3:17 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
AricVader
Junior Member (Idle past 4850 days)
Posts: 6
From: Grand River, Iowa, United States
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 43 of 163 (581906)
09-18-2010 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Jon
09-17-2010 4:57 PM


I appreciate the gesture to try and get things closer to my opening statement. All I really want now is to see some experiments that may have been done on the possibility of existence after death.
I do know that nothing will be conclusively true because it cannot fully be verified, but any links to some good scientific sites on the issue would be appreciated. I already look at many possible religious ones and they are interesting but based fully on faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Jon, posted 09-17-2010 4:57 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Phage0070, posted 09-18-2010 4:48 AM AricVader has not replied
 Message 54 by Larni, posted 10-08-2010 12:42 PM AricVader has not replied

  
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