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Author Topic:   Extinction of Dinosaurs: Consensus Reached . . . mostly
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 31 of 53 (581872)
09-17-2010 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by barbara
09-17-2010 8:51 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
If fact, nothing has ever been extinct, just changed in appearance over time.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by barbara, posted 09-17-2010 8:51 PM barbara has replied

Replies to this message:
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barbara
Member (Idle past 4801 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 32 of 53 (581875)
09-17-2010 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Coyote
09-17-2010 9:06 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
So are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Coyote, posted 09-17-2010 9:06 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 33 of 53 (581877)
09-17-2010 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by barbara
09-17-2010 9:27 PM


Extinct
I showed you two creatures that are extinct.
Dead, gone, extinct. They are not changing into anything.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by barbara, posted 09-17-2010 9:27 PM barbara has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 34 of 53 (581878)
09-17-2010 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by barbara
09-17-2010 8:51 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
Since there is no clear evidence of a cause for a massive "extinction" event perhaps the real reason is the dinosaurs did not go extinct but descent with modification is what caused their appearance to change over time.
What evidence do you have for this?
This fits under evolutionists explanation perfectly.
It doesn't at all. Extinction and oppertunity are key aspects.
Dinosaurs were highly diverse and successful , they managed to occupy almost every niche and climate. The mass extinction allowed small Mammals that were coexisting with Dinosaurs for 100 Million years to take to fill the now "vacant" Planet. The extinction of the therapsids around 251 Million years ago allowed Dinosaurs to evolve and fill every Niche. These are the two major extinction events in earth's history. The fossil record is clear,
If fact, nothing has ever been extinct, just changed in appearance over time.
All Species? Should we tell that to the Dodo Bird and the tasmanian wolf? Where are they now?
Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

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barbara
Member (Idle past 4801 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 35 of 53 (581894)
09-17-2010 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by DC85
09-17-2010 10:04 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
Dinosaurs changed to birds and other reptiles over time. The largest birds became smaller birds over time plus speciation occurred multiple times giving you today an abundant diversity of birds. Life comes from life and if I am to make any sense of evolution then total extinction doesn't fit into the theory of descent with modification. You can't evolve from another if it dead. Humans evolve from a primate's ancestor but humans and modern apes, monkeys today do not look their ancestrial link.

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 37 by Nij, posted 09-18-2010 12:35 AM barbara has not replied
 Message 38 by NoNukes, posted 09-18-2010 12:41 AM barbara has replied
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 09-18-2010 12:44 AM barbara has not replied
 Message 40 by Huntard, posted 09-18-2010 1:07 AM barbara has not replied
 Message 42 by DC85, posted 09-18-2010 10:22 AM barbara has not replied
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 36 of 53 (581898)
09-18-2010 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by barbara
09-17-2010 11:35 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
Dinosaurs changed to birds and other reptiles over time.
You are missing one point. The dinosaurs that evolved into birds did so long before the K-T boundary. The first birds evolved over 100 million years ago, the K-T boundary was ~65 million years ago.(1) The non-avian dinosaurs became extinct as did the common ancestral species that evolved into birds. Many dinosaur species became extinct before the birds evolved. Most of the Triassic dinosaurs were extinct prior to the Jurassic, and most of the Jurassic species were extinct before the Cretaceous, including the birds common ancestor.
(1) The Ancestors Tale Richard Dawkins, p256.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

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Nij
Member (Idle past 4889 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 37 of 53 (581899)
09-18-2010 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by barbara
09-17-2010 11:35 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
Life comes from life and if I am to make any sense of evolution then total extinction doesn't fit into the theory of descent with modification. You can't evolve from another if it dead. Humans evolve from a primate's ancestor but humans and modern apes, monkeys today do not look their ancestrial link
Except nobody is saying it was total extinction. It's not even the worst ever: the previous P-Tr event wiped out far more species (percentagewise) and yet there was still plenty enough life left over to begin the age of the dinosaurs.
Everything that weighed over 20 pounds, IIRC, was killed because there was simply no way to support it. But a lot of the smaller stuff i.e. mammals and birds could survive, and once the environments were stable enough, they developed, speciated, evolved to fill the gaps left behind.
Not all dinosaurs changed into birds. A majority of them stayed being dinosaurs. The largest birds -- the ones that were too big -- died. Not changed into smaller ones, died. The smaller ones lived, and later diversified to include large birds again.
Humans evolve from a primate's ancestor but humans and modern apes, monkeys today do not look their ancestrial link
As a matter of fact, modern monkeys look much like their ancestors. Even we are very similar; the only significant differences are the lack of hair and our bipedalism. The rest is all pretty much the same; differences in bone lengths and sizes, brain size, and probably some basic abilities.

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 53 (581900)
09-18-2010 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by barbara
09-17-2010 11:35 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
barbara writes:
Dinosaurs changed to birds and other reptiles over time.
Even if birds and other reptiles evolved from dinosaurs, that would still leave the question of what happened to the dinosaurs descendants that were still dinosaurs. Evolution does not mean that individual dinosaurs actually turned into birds or other reptiles.

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 Message 35 by barbara, posted 09-17-2010 11:35 PM barbara has replied

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 39 of 53 (581901)
09-18-2010 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by barbara
09-17-2010 11:35 PM


barbara writes:
Life comes from life and if I am to make any sense of evolution then total extinction doesn't fit into the theory of descent with modification. You can't evolve from another if it dead.
Species A was the common ancestor of species B and species C. Later on, species A became extinct. What's the problem with that?

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2294 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 40 of 53 (581903)
09-18-2010 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by barbara
09-17-2010 11:35 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
Hmm perhaps, visualisations helps.
Now, imagine the right side of the image is present day. As you can see, species B, C and D all share A as a common ancestor. Species A, B and C are extinct however. Now, you can say that species A turned into species B, and B turned into D, but what about C? That didn't turn into anything. That just went extinct.
This is what happens all the time in evolution.
Hope that helped.

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barbara
Member (Idle past 4801 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 41 of 53 (581911)
09-18-2010 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by NoNukes
09-18-2010 12:41 AM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
The statement you made, "individual dinosaurs did not turn into birds or reptiles" does not make sense to me when I was informed by this site that the fact that I am alive right now is because every ancestor whether it was human, primitive ape, whatever it was before that, going back to my origin of the first multi-cellular life lived long enough to reproduce is why I am here today.
Obviously my ancestors changed in appearance several times since its origin in early earth. At some point the offspring started to look less and less like they looked 1000 or more generations ago. Offspring are individuals that represent the group they are identified by.
I am not saying one day a dinosaur and the next it became a bird.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by NoNukes, posted 09-18-2010 12:41 AM NoNukes has replied

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DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 42 of 53 (581950)
09-18-2010 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by barbara
09-17-2010 11:35 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
Dinosaurs changed to birds and other reptiles over time. The largest birds became smaller birds over time plus speciation occurred multiple times giving you today an abundant diversity of birds.
No Dinosaurs evolved into modern reptiles as a matter of fact for the most part Dinosaurs aren't considered reptile.
As for Birds only small theropod dinosaur evolved into birds.
These along with the vast majority of the dinosaurs of the late cretaceous simply went extinct.
These are not birds
Life comes from life and if I am to make any sense of evolution then total extinction doesn't fit into the theory of descent with modification.
Of course it does. Extinction allows other life to evolve and fill niches previously filled by an extinct species.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by barbara, posted 09-17-2010 11:35 PM barbara has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 43 of 53 (581952)
09-18-2010 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by barbara
09-17-2010 11:35 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
Life comes from life and if I am to make any sense of evolution then total extinction doesn't fit into the theory of descent with modification. You can't evolve from another if it dead
there was no total extinction the bigest one killed 95% of the species living at the time the ones that survived by chance had the traits needed to cope whit the new enviorment from these survivors evolution continued

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 53 (582653)
09-22-2010 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by barbara
09-18-2010 4:02 AM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
barbara writes:
Obviously my ancestors changed in appearance several times since its origin in early earth. At some point the offspring started to look less and less like they looked 1000 or more generations ago. Offspring are individuals that represent the group they are identified by.
True, but that does not necessarily mean that there are not present day offspring around that still look like your early ancestors rather than like you.

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 45 of 53 (583110)
09-24-2010 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by barbara
09-17-2010 8:51 PM


Re: Lack of other impact-induced evidence
Since there is no clear evidence of a cause for a massive "extinction" event perhaps the real reason is the dinosaurs did not go extinct but descent with modification is what caused their appearance to change over time.
Actually, there are two major known causes: the asteroid impact and supervolcanism that produced the Deccan traps seen in modern day India. Scientists have been arguing back and forth over which of these causes had the most impact on the extinction non-avian dinosaur species.
Also, these dinosaurs didn't change. They died. Kaput. Gone.
If fact, nothing has ever been extinct, just changed in appearance over time.
There are organisms from the past that have no living descendants in the present. Their lineages have stopped. This is the case for non-avian dinosaur. There is not a living descendant of any T. rex anywhere on this Earth. Nowhere.
And just to comment on confusing dinosaurs with reptiles . . . Dinosaurs are no more reptillian than mammals are. Both mammals and dinosaurs evolved from reptiles--different clades of reptiles, but reptiles nonetheless.

This message is a reply to:
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