Problems with being an Atheist (or Evolutionist)

Science included? I think so.Stile, my problems with atheism, and or atheists, is that they pretend to not believe in something, for one.
2. they say they won't subscribe to a god because of lack of evidence, when the bible clearly states that it is by faith that you get to know God.
3. they say they don't have a problem with people having faith (so long as they are not doing harm to anyone) then go on to compare faith in god to santa claus, or the easter bunny. You are not respecting people when you do that, you are insulting them.
4. they resort to history books and point out all the bad things that were done in the name of god/s. But I can bet you anything there were more good people than bad people, all of them theists. History books are like the news sometimes, only reporting the bad stuff. Besides, logic would tell you that people don't need to blame their immorality on a belief, people are just people, and they are bad because they choose to be bad. Blaming it on god, or using a god as an excuse does not contribute to his non-existence. As if there were no bad atheists. Wouldn't I be wrong to say that atheism is bad, since a random atheist committed a wrong, and immoral act? Atheists always talk about taking moral responsibility. So then don't be hypocrites, just like people need to take moral responsibility, and responsibility for their own actions, then atheists need to stop using people's irrational beliefs in god/s to not believe.Largely I find the logic in being an atheist to be hypocritical, just as much as the hypocrites in the churches. Again, people just being people.

right, you don't believe there is a god, that is your belief.
It's doubly frustrating to explain this to an atheist.

I am not going to reply to everyone individually. I see no need for you people to repeat answers. I am well aware of the atheists stance on "the lack of belief". However, atheism by definition is not someone who doesn't believe in something. Atheism, in a narrow sense is specifically the position that there are no deities. That is a belief. You cannot dis-prove God's existence, so you believe there are no gods. Don't be hypocrites.We've already gone over in another thread, that the lack of evidence of anything, does not prove it's non-existence. There are still plenty of things yet to be discovered, and they all exist. We may not possess the methods for detecting those things, or are unable to see them yet, but they do exist.If I took a cube, and pulled a perfect vacuum on it, I could easily prove with 99.99% certainty that there is nothing material inside of it. If you said to me, there was a god inside of it, I would have no way of detecting that god, since we cannot detect things that do not exist in our dimension, or however gods exist, so I would have to take it on faith that there is nothing there, because I believe there is nothing there.Until the day comes that we have every instrument to detect every single thing in the universe, and we have categorized, and recorded every single thing in the universe, and can predict with 100% certainty that this or that will happen, we take things on faith.There are varying levels of faith. It takes almost no faith to believe the sun will rise tomorrow, but a lot of faith to believe in a god.Like Mr. Jack says

quote:

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Science has a method for improving what it's right about, and finding what it's wrong about.

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A true scientifically minded person, or logically minded person would never be an atheist. He would always leave room open for further interpretation. At best he would be agnostic.People do not believe in Santa Claus, or the Easter bunny, because we already have proof that those are just stories made up to invoke the minds of children. No one is actually going around telling adults that Santa Claus does indeed exist. It takes almost no faith for me to believe he doesn't exist. I am sick and tired of people using them as examples. It's hypocritical, and insulting.Onifire, insulting someone, and being insulted are two different things. I don't get insulted, be I do recognize when I am being insulted. My skin IS think. I get pissed because the supposedly rational minds of atheist, aren't so rational when throwing around insults. If you have a valid argument about something, there is not need to resort to insults to explain your position.Because of that, and the way atheist come across, atheist seem like nothing more than pissed off believers, who actually know God exists in their hearts, and they just want to deny Him so they can live by their own rules. They appear as hypocrites, something I can't stand. (talking about the angry atheist, not every atheist)Also people who take it on faith that god wants them to go and blow people up because of something they read in a book, are just doing what they would have done regardless of the book. It is what is in their hearts already. If I read something like that in the bible, I would have enough common sense to know it was wrong, and then it would make me question my faith in that book. So again, responsibility falls on the person.Mr.Jack, faith is not a cop-out. You have faith in everything you believe in, and you believe in stuff. It takes faith to accept anything in life, just different levels of it. You want to rely on empirical evidence, and knowledge, but those things are limited, and ever changing as you stated. So the thing you think is right today, can change tomorrow. That seems ridiculous to me, more ridiculous that believe in most of the "grand virtues" of religion. So before you go around thinking your way is the best way, look at things in perspective, and leave yourself open to a better interpretation. Live by your own rules.You could rob theism of it's history, and you would gain respect IMO. The history of theism, is pretty shady. The philosophy of what Jesus taught us is not shady. There is a difference between God, and religion.You say: I couldn't agree with you more. What we have here is people, just being people. Theist or not. That is why Jesus taught us that it doesn't matter what you profess with your mouth. It is that reason that I cannot personally judge who is going to heaven or not. I am not going to judge why people become atheists, because we don't always hear the whole story. I am sure there are people who become atheist because of negative experiences with religion. I believe in accountability.frako, I would love to respond to you, but you are way off the beaten path, and your spelling sucks.

But Jesus Christ is. Yes, that is a good point.

On the definition of atheism. Not my definition, was from wikipedia.

Which is fine. But they act like they have the truth. They refuse to admit that the concept of no-God is a belief. That is not even close to being true, you should stop thinking that way. Prove that, and I will accept it. Until then, it's just a belief. My point exactly. Sorry then, I tried to say it nicely, because I want to understand him, but I didn't. I mean there is spell check.

Human imagined? Prove that one, or else stop saying it.You don't have to believe it's valid. Says who? That's complete bullshit. Even children think there is something more. People are born thinking there is more to life than just this. Believing in a god and the supernatural is the default position. Again, you will never find God that way. It is by faith only. If you are not willing to live by faith, then you will never know God. Why is that so hard for you to imagine? You have never sat in a black-lit room, stoned out of your mind wondering where the hell all this came from? Ever wonder what was before the big bang? It is totally easy to imagine things working in a different way. Time travel, worm holes, the random movements of quantum particles, its all there. I should have specified, the pissed ones. You don't seem pissed, and you have been nice to me, and our conversations have been awesome. No I am not. I am apologetic. That means a lot of things. I've said it a bunch of times. I believe in accountability. I don't think atheists are going to hell. No-one can tell whats in another mans heart.I have chosen to accept one God, because after 38 years of not knowing wtf to believe, something happened to me, that was very real. Had that not happened, had God not come to me in a powerful way, I would still be unsure.Either that or I am delusional. No, don't try that one on me, I've already had that discussion on another forum. A theist is someone who believes in a "god", not any specific god, just a god. I am pretty sure that is not true. Someone chime in here. Lots of killing has gone on in the name of "god" throughout the centuries. Yea sure. The word of God, comes from His mouth, not repeated by humans. I don't take the bible as the word of God. I take it as a book of writings inspired by the Holy Spirit. But the writings were by men.That is why so many Christians can read it, and one year a verse can have one meaning in their lives, then a year later, it means something else. That is because God talks to us through those words. We hear His actual word, which is subjective to each of us.

That meaning was ripped from wikipedia.

Not my definition, thanks.

This whole conversation with you, would go much better if you left emotions out of it, and accusations. Nothing could be further from the truth. I cannot judge if someone is a liar, because I cannot see into their hearts. No it's not. That is an irrelevant comparison. Let's stick with the word belief, as hobbys are not beliefs.

I read that also. That definition is not exclusive. I am sure an atheist wrote that.In other words, they believe no God exists.I am challenging that definition. It's not like the concept of god has not crossed all of your minds. First of all, it makes perfect logical sense.I'll make it very simple:Theist: someone who believes in the existence of a god
Atheist: someone who believes there are no gods.You see, theism, and atheism are antonyms. Not one single person alive can prove anything with 100% certainty. And you certainly not prove the non-existence of god. So you believe there are none.Belief, is faith. There are different levels of faith. It's not math, it's not 2+2, it can't be proven. You just take it on faith that there is no god, because you haven't seen any objective evidence of one. Which is the way it is supposed to be. God wants us to believe by faith, so you won't find any objective evidence of Him.It's like, I believe if I turn the TV on, it will actually turn on. I can't say with 100% certainty it will, because I just won't know until it happens. We can predict stuff, but we don't know if it will happen, until it happens. So I believe it will turn on, I don't know it will turn on. There is an outside remote chance that it will not turn on. TV's can last an average of x# of years, divided by the amount of times you turn it on. So there is a percentage of failure, and a possibility it won't work.Gravity works every time we test it. Does this mean it is 100% certain it will work forever? Has it always worked? We can't even calculate it, because we haven't been taking records since the start of the universe. So realistically, and based on approximations, we can say gravity will work 99.999999%(or whatever) of the time. There is still an outside chance that it won't work.Again, nothing is ever proven. Ever thing we see and think with our minds, and our tests, and whatever, is all based on faith, and belief.Atheism IS a faith. It doesn't have a religion, but it is a faith.But I bet you if I started a web-site called atheism.com, a bunch of people would join, and it could become religious in a way.Which made me search, and here it is:
About Us - American AtheistsTry to understand something, I am not putting down atheism by saying it is a belief.

No, the belief in gods has been around much longer than the belief of no gods. I would tend to think it is the default human position, and just plain ole human nature.You should be happy with that. Science has had to break down many wrongs about human nature, this could be one of them. The default position is not always the right one.

I can't think of anything, which ha made me think, ha.
I would be lying if I told you why it is that way.The only thing I can figure so far, which is off topic a bit, is that previously (if the bible is correct about some of it's stories) that God showed Himself all the time objectively. Even the people who saw Him, and His objective evidences didn't believe. God saw the control of religious leaders, and how it kept people from Him. So He sent Jesus to show us the way, and to change how we meet with God.Of course there is tons wrong with that last statement, but it is just what I think, an opinion. I don't concern myself with it too much, because history isn't all that accurate, and it just doesn't matter, since my belief, and faith, and what I feel from God is very real to me. I don't need to worry about it. I mean I think about it from time to time, but there is so much that is unexplained in life, you can't beat yourself up on it. Things get answered when the time is right.
The core of my belief is love.

What's the difference? You don't believe in gods. That definition works for purposes of this conversation. What are you guys getting all huffy about? It's still vastly different than being agnostic.Wait, I think I may have the definition of being agnostic wrong. I was always under the impression that being agnostic was someone who was unsure, and thinks there could be a possibility. At least that was what I was taught for years, am I wrong about that? I am reading the definition in wikipedia, and questioning my understanding of being agnostic.So what I meant and what I said could be 2 different things.Do atheist think there is a possibility of god or not?

Well, I don't think that way, or speak that way, and neither did Jesus. Don't confuse trust with faith, or belief.I think Jesus taught us a bunch of things, and if you can see the truth in those things, then you are on your way to faith.