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Author Topic:   Problems with being an Atheist (or Evolutionist)
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 217 of 276 (582234)
09-20-2010 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by crashfrog
09-19-2010 9:56 PM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
"crashfrog" writes:
How so? Jesus Christ didn't do anything to stop Ted Haggard. If I want to snort a bunch of coke, how exactly is "Jesus Christ" going to stop me?
I really hate when atheists do just what you did. There has to be a name for it, something like, lying?
Jesus doesn't stop us from doing anything, only you can, by following His ways. If you follow His ways, you are believing in Him, if you are not, then you are not believing in Him. You can say whatever you want with your mouth, that doesn't mean crap.
Religion can't make you do the right thing, they can just try to talk you into doing the right thing. Or the wrong thing.
But anybody can do that.
Yes and no. Where does the sense of right and wrong come from? This "right thing". I've heard it all too much in this forum.
Tell me one thing that Jesus suggested that is the "wrong thing".
Even when I was not a believer, I have a problem with the concept of science dictation all of what is right or wrong. Especially since science can change when better data becomes available. So my concept of right and wrong can change with it? One day wine is no good for you, the next day a few glasses is good for you. Come on dude, that sometimes sounds more crazy that believing in a god. In a way science can be like the wind, and we should just take it for what it is worth, and not make science into our god. Be realistic about it, is what I am saying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by crashfrog, posted 09-19-2010 9:56 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 218 of 276 (582235)
09-20-2010 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by nwr
09-19-2010 9:57 PM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
"nwr" writes:
Some do, though most probably doubt that it would be anything like the Christian idea of God.
That is because of many reasons, and probably why apologetics exist.
Also, there is no absolute "Christian idea of God". That is why there is so many religions. I used to have a problem with that, but I've changed. I realize that different people, need different ways of believing. I think God is ok with that, but that is just my opinion. Where people make a mistake is in their tolerance of other religions.

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 Message 206 by nwr, posted 09-19-2010 9:57 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 219 of 276 (582236)
09-20-2010 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Blue Jay
09-20-2010 12:53 AM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
"Bluejay" writes:
The default position should be set at "0," not at whatever value people have set it at in the past.
Yea, define "0". "0" assumes we know everything, and we don't. "0" is subjective.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Blue Jay, posted 09-20-2010 12:53 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 220 of 276 (582238)
09-20-2010 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Dr Adequate
09-20-2010 2:41 AM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
"Dr Adequate" writes:
But in the current absence of any supporting evidence for it,
There is tons of evidence. The evidence is old, hence now subjective. Current evidence is subjective. The words of Jesus are objective evidence. You have to choose whether or not it means there is a God.
I keep telling you guys, and we have been through this in another thread, lack of objective evidence does not proof the non-existence of something. It only enforces your belief that it doesn't exist.
Sometimes in life the greatest discoveries start with subjective evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-20-2010 2:41 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Taq, posted 09-20-2010 1:54 PM riVeRraT has replied
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 221 of 276 (582239)
09-20-2010 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Rrhain
09-20-2010 2:53 AM


"Rrhain" writes:
and it would behoove you to avoid trying to psychoanalyze me over the internet.
LOL, hypocrite.
We've already seen that you are willing to misquote your own source with regard to what atheism is.
I have not mis-quoted anything. I said in a narrow sense. Some people have graciously explained what that means. You haven't.
Why on earth should we not expect you to misrepresent what atheists actually say about themselves?
People get definitions wrong all the time.
When an atheist tells you that their philosophy is based on the lack of belief and not the belief of lack, who are you to tell them otherwise?
Because you cannot dis-prove the existence of God. I am challenging it. It is my problem with atheists.
Then why do you think you know more about atheism than atheists?
I was an atheist for 38 years. (by definition)
A hobby is a belief as it is an emotional connection to a concept. People are motivated to engage in the activity as it provides emotional benefits they find desirable.
What??? A hobby is not a belief.
a belief is:
Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.
There is nothing true or false about stamp collecting. Stamp collecting is not a proposition.
Hobbies, are not beliefs. Stop making invalid comparisons. Something you always do. It would be nice if you could explain it, without relating it to something completely different. So your analogy isn't worth responding to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Rrhain, posted 09-20-2010 2:53 AM Rrhain has replied

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 222 of 276 (582241)
09-20-2010 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Rrhain
09-20-2010 3:09 AM


"Rrhain" writes:
And atheists have no faith. That's the entire point.
Yes that is the entire point, which you have stated wrongly. Atheists do have faith, and beliefs.
There is no "default position", the default position is not "0", since "0" cannot be defined or proven.
There is no such thing as lack of belief, as we have already determined through several conversations on the subject. We are humans, not computers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Rrhain, posted 09-20-2010 3:09 AM Rrhain has replied

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 224 of 276 (582244)
09-20-2010 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Dr Jack
09-20-2010 4:16 AM


adddressing the point.
Addressing the point:
Think of it like this, would you describe yourself as an 'a-zeusist'? Or someone with a belief in no Shiva?
Yes, I can describe myself as being that, it would be 100% accurate.

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 Message 214 by Dr Jack, posted 09-20-2010 4:16 AM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 227 of 276 (582249)
09-20-2010 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Taq
09-20-2010 1:54 PM


wow, didn't see that coming.
"Taq" writes:
Then comes the hard part, getting the objective evidence to back it up.
Yea, the double blind, scientific study evidence to prove the creator of everything, who doesn't want you to prove He exists, will be hard, and probably impossible to find.
Learning to accept that was a process for me. It is the reason why creation science is bogus. It is also a measuring stick for a lot of evangelism. When evangelists try to tell us things in a scientific way, using statistics and facts. Faith is not about that, faith is entirely subjective (or your subjective take on some objective evidences). Nothing is proven in faith, and the degree of faith is way higher than believing in objective things like scientific results.
It is the reason why the whole concept of this forum is bogus. Sitting here and comparing objective evidences about creation, and evolution is just a huge waste of time. Still we enjoy the conversations here. If we are comparing evolution vs creation, objectively, evolution wins hands down. Forum over, pack it up. You win.
If anything, people should learn from this forum the truth about things. I am all for the truth.
Thanks Taq for agreeing with me. I was surprised to say the least.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Taq, posted 09-20-2010 1:54 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 228 of 276 (582251)
09-20-2010 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by ringo
09-20-2010 2:04 PM


Re: trust
A lot of us here are moving away from faith. Faith is a second-rate system. Jesus Himself told Thomas to look at the evidence. He would like you to understand the truth in what He said and internalize it, not just have faith in it. Often atheists understand the truth in Jesus' words better than Christians do - because they don't rely on faith.
Yea, I'm fine with that. I also see more "Jesus like" behavior in atheists, and some jews, and some muslims than most Christians. Like I said, it's not about what you proclaim with your mouth.
Not sure what you mean by faith being second rate. What verse are you talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by ringo, posted 09-20-2010 2:04 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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