Who should we hate?

And he's not entirely against killing thousands of people by inflicting them with a terrible disease for having the audacity to question their leaders, but we digress.

Anglagard, I see I need to clarify my poorly stated position. First, there are Biblical NT Christians and there are professing Christians who act contrary to NT guidelines. Secondly, there are wars and there are individual fightings unrelated to war perse.No NT prophets including Jesus ever advocated violence for the propagation of Christianity, contrary to Islamic doctrine.Wars were prophesied between nations and tribes etc but nothing is stated in these as to whether Christians would or would not be fighting in them as soldiers of the state.The prophets, both OT and NT never advocated any fighting, be it wars or by individuals for world conquest by Christianity, contrary to the Quran, the Hadith and the Sunnahs of Islam, all of which calls for fighting the infidels for the advancement of Islam and Allah.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I understand the difference. I reject it as being meaningless in this discussion, and overly pedantic as well.Further, I see it as a way of downplaying those huge "mass murders" of Mao and Stalin in order to be able to blame the US for the single largest "genocide" in history. Sounds like a "blame America first" problem to me.And I have already pointed out some problems with "The US killed all the Native Americans" scenario in at least two posts. At least try to get the history correct. "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you."

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

First, you have never supported your assertion that Islam calls for those things. Bring us the specifics and we can discuss them.Second, of course the prophets advocated fighting. Come on Buz. The OT is filled with tales of God telling folk to conquer territory, enslave peoples, kill people but keep the young wimmin for fun later.Revelations was nothing but a call to arms to oppose the Roman Empire. Jesus himself said he came with a sword and would set brother against brother.I realize you have not read the Qur'an, Hadith or the Sunnahs, but have you read the Bible and the other documents similar to the Hadith or Sunnah, documents like the many Christian calls to conquer and spread Christianity by fire and the sword?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Sure they do, it just depends on how we break it down. If you calculate spread of disease, starvation, lose of food supply like buffalo, driven into colder climates, etc., the numbers get up into the 100 million.Most of the deaths caused by Stalin were indirect - results of forced labor in the gulag. Same as with Mao; indirect results of his actions that left people to starvation.But I said genocide, as in, direct action to eradicate a people.But on a whole, we would then have to include the indirect causes of death by the US, not just the direct genocide of a people, far worse than that committed by the other greatest genocidal government, the Nazis.Indirectly the US casualty numbers might reach half a billion - Support of Israel, Saddam, Afghanistan, Osama Bin Laden, the Contras in Nicaragua, Saudi Arabia, East Timor, slavery, Civil Rights Movement, and of course Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that to this day still feels the effects of those A-Bombs. And this is just off the top of my head, I'm sure with a little labor I could pull up a shit load more.YET, the US continues as a government while all the other fellas that you mention have long been done away with.That's the difference.- Oni

If we are still talking about Native Americans (which I was), your numbers are far off: And as also highlighted, it wasn't the US that caused all the problems, though many like to blame the US for anything they can.A chart on the Wiki page shows that half of the Native population of California was gone before the US even took over.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

But first we'd have to decide if they're black or white.

Well, the answer's simple, to those who are white supremacists, if a penguin has any black in it it's black. To black supremacists, if the penguin has any white they ain't dark enough and are therefore white.

Doesn't that make them Puerto Rican?- Oni

I guess according to some, no one from Spain, the UK, the Netherlands, France, Russia, Portugal, Belgium, Russia, China, Japan etc. ever killed any natives during the colonization process. And of course Mao, Stalin, and Hitler never engaged in genocide - just incidental mass murder.The more I read comments on you tube, and now even here, the more I find to condemn in the shortcomings of the educational system of all nations.Can't anyone just look at a globe - who the hell owned nearly all of everything south of the USA in the Western Hemisphere between 1492 (or more properly around 1550) and 1776?Clue - it was not the USA, which did not exist prior to 1776.Read some history you friggin morons.Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.Edited by anglagard, : Clarity - both times

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The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman RushdieThis rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

Be it named genocide or mass murder, the victims of state-sanctioned murder are still just as dead.You, who is normally reasonable, have dug a fine deep hole for yourself. It should prove interesting to see how you climb out of it.

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The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman RushdieThis rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

Spain no longer exists!?Have you relayed this startling information to King Carlos?{ABE} If you use email, please be sure to cc Queen Elizabeth IIEdited by anglagard, : No reason given.

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The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman RushdieThis rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

Jar, you constantly tell me to support my claims but here you fail to support your take on the text to which you refer. How about a look at the context of the cherry picked phrases you have miss-applied. and your source here is a quote mine from a context which does not say Jesus or any Christians will be wielding swords and killing people. The context clearly states that what he meant is that when members of families it will divide families, turning some members against others who convert. It was actually a prophecy which has been fulfilled for centuries since, throughout Christianity and is ongoing today. A classic example of this is recently when a Muslim father in Buffalo beheaded his daughter for converting out of Islam. Death is Islam's punishment for heretic siblings who convert out of Islam. It has happened for centuries in Islamic nations and is ongoing to this day. The same happened in the Dark Ages of the Roman Catholic inquisitions when the brutal popes and bishops of RC burned heretics at the stake and all kinds of torture for opting out of Catholicism. The father of a young techy man in my own town who became a devout Christian disowned the young man after his conversion. This guy helped me with some computer problems before going to Bible school in Fla. It also split him up from his fiance. Jews often disown siblings who convert to Christianity.ABE: Here's the full context which tells it like it is: Now about the sword. Millions of Christians have been killed as martyrs over the centuries because of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's rarely the evangelical fundi Christians ever do any killing. They are the ones martyred, doing as Jesus did and taking persecution rather than giving it.Bottom Line: Another of Jesus's fulfilled prophecies and the prophecies of both OT and NT.Please back up you allegation about fighting the Roman Empire in Revelation. How about some of your own medicine. Cite chapter and verse; enough of your strawmen blind assertions. Edited by Buzsaw, : Add Scripture text

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

quote:

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Matthew 10:34-39

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34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.
37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

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The same kind of rhetoric that motivates suicide bombers.The point Buz is that I can take crap out of context just as you do. The Bible can be quote mined to justify all kinds of horrific behavior, and has been used to justify horrific behavior. Those who believe that Revelations is talking about the future are the folk I really fear. It is only the US that actually has teh capability to bring about Armageddon. But Christianity itself was spread by fire and the sword. We made war on the Muslims, drove the Jews from nation after nation. Christianity itself only became significant when it became a State Religion, imposed on those who worshiped other religions, even Judaism and Islam that worship the very same God as Christianity.Today, the threat is those Christians, particularly in the US, that believe that Revelations is not a typical apocalypse story, a common format at the time it was written, that was aimed at the Roman Empire.Have you ever even read Revelations Buz?Did you read the prologue?It begins: Note the underlined part.He is talking to his audience about CURRENT events, what will happen soon, not over 1500 years later and still counting.Unfortunately, not one of his prophecies came true.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Mao is the greatest mass murderer in history. Stalin comes second. I believe everybody agrees on this point.
The US is responsible for the greatest single genocide in history. Hitler comes second. This is the one which we are having trouble with, and it stems from the semantic issue of what a genocide is.I am not disputing that Mao and Stalin killed off more people between them than nearly everybody else put together, nor that their motives were the epitome of ignorance and insanity.
I am disputing the usage of the word "genocide" to refer to any and all mass murders, when they are terms with distinct meaning. Genocides are a form of mass murder, but mass murders are not automatically genocides.
The subtitle should have been enough: they are simply not equivalent terms.I'm curious as to why you quoted that section instead of one more relevant to the point.
Which hole do you refer to?