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Author Topic:   Size of the universe
Annafan
Member (Idle past 2653 days)
Posts: 418
From: Belgium
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 31 of 248 (583453)
09-27-2010 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by AZPaul3
09-26-2010 1:38 AM


Re: Jennifer Lopez
Will we ever get mandatory sub-thumbnails?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by AZPaul3, posted 09-26-2010 1:38 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2010 12:49 PM Annafan has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3798
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 32 of 248 (583460)
09-27-2010 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Annafan
09-27-2010 11:44 AM


Dill Relish and Spicy Mustard
Will we ever get mandatory sub-thumbnails?

Sorry, this went right past me.

Huh?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Annafan, posted 09-27-2010 11:44 AM Annafan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Annafan, posted 09-28-2010 7:21 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Annafan
Member (Idle past 2653 days)
Posts: 418
From: Belgium
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 33 of 248 (583599)
09-28-2010 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by AZPaul3
09-27-2010 12:49 PM


Re: Dill Relish and Spicy Mustard
A thumbnail of Jennifer Lopez would be better than just her name written. ;-)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2010 12:49 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

    
creationliberty
Junior Member (Idle past 2981 days)
Posts: 7
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 09-29-2010


Message 34 of 248 (583840)
09-29-2010 10:17 AM


Distance of the Universe is Unknown
sorry, accidently posted twice

Edited by creationliberty, : sorry, accidently posted twice


    
creationliberty
Junior Member (Idle past 2981 days)
Posts: 7
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 09-29-2010


Message 35 of 248 (583843)
09-29-2010 10:19 AM


Distance of the Universe is Unknown
If anyone is going to be honest, they cannot say they know the distance of the universe, if it does have an end. All the calculations made about the distance of the universe relies heavily on the speed of light being a constant. (without a constant, how can you measure anything)

I saw this thread after I posted in the speed of light thread, and you can see for yourself:

-------------------------------------------------------------
In 1999, experiments were done at Harvard, Smithsonian, and Cambridge to slow light down using a specially treated cesium gas. The first experiments yeilded light to 38 MPH. Two years later, they stopped light, and then released it again like a material particle. It was also able to be speeded up to 300 times faster than normal.
(See David Whitehouse, science editor, Beam Smashes Light Barrier, BBC News, July 19, 2000; See also William J. Cromie, Physicists Slow Speed of Light, Harvard University Gazette, Feb 18, 1999; See also Malcolm W. Browne, Researchers Slow Speed of Light to the Pace of a Sunday Driver, New York Times, Feb 18, 1999)

Since the constant speed of light has been disproven, that means all measurements based on light speed distance cannot be determined to be accurate without claiming absolute knowledge of the universe. Red Shift, for example, ASSUMES the speed of light is a constant, it ASSUMES light has always traveled at the same rate, and it ASSUMES that the light has not traveled through anything that may change its speed and/or appearance.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Without a constant speed of light, there is no way for us to determine, with any confident accuracy, the distance to stars or the universe itself. They very well could be billions of light years away, and it's a reasonable theory, but we don't know, and it's arrogant and unlawful for people to tell students the evolutionary guesses of distance outside our solar system is "fact."

(For more details, see "The Big Dud Theory," at "creationliberty.org)


Replies to this message:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2813
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 36 of 248 (583847)
09-29-2010 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by creationliberty
09-29-2010 10:19 AM


Re: Distance of the Universe is Unknown
so it should be bigger than we think
This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by creationliberty, posted 09-29-2010 10:19 AM creationliberty has not yet responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 37 of 248 (583856)
09-29-2010 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by creationliberty
09-29-2010 10:19 AM


Re: Distance of the Universe is Unknown
They very well could be billions of light years away, and it's a reasonable theory, but we don't know, and it's arrogant and unlawful for people to tell students the evolutionary guesses of distance outside our solar system is "fact."

(bolding mine)

Care to explain what the theory of evolution has to do with cosmology?

.....they cannot say they know the distance of the universe,.....

The distance of the universe from what? Or do you mean the size of the universe?


"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by creationliberty, posted 09-29-2010 10:19 AM creationliberty has not yet responded

    
nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


(1)
Message 38 of 248 (583858)
09-29-2010 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by creationliberty
09-29-2010 10:19 AM


Re: Distance of the Universe is Unknown
creationliberty writes:
I saw this thread after I posted in the speed of light thread, and you can see for yourself:

So now you are posting the same nonsense here that you posted in another thread.

Can you do us a favor. If you are going to post nonsense all over the place, can you at least make it different nonsense in each post.


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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 248 (583957)
09-29-2010 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by creationliberty
09-29-2010 10:19 AM


Re: Distance of the Universe is Unknown
creationliberty writes:

All the calculations made about the distance of the universe relies heavily on the speed of light being a constant (without a constant, how can you measure anything)

Nonsense. The distance measurements to distant objects in the universe generally use methods that are independent of the speed of light. In fact the Hubble 'constant' is actually calculated by measuring redshift (the size of which does depend on the speed of light) against distances measurements which do not depend on the speed of light.

If your real issue is with red shift, I think you are attacking the wrong aspect of cosmology. Red shift is evidence that the universe is expanding and that rate of expansion is increasing.

Here's that link again describing stellar distance measurement techniques.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_distance_ladder


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by creationliberty, posted 09-29-2010 10:19 AM creationliberty has not yet responded

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1175 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 40 of 248 (583985)
09-29-2010 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by creationliberty
09-29-2010 10:19 AM


Re: Distance of the Universe is Unknown
All the calculations made about the distance of the universe relies heavily on the speed of light being a constant. (without a constant, how can you measure anything)

The speed of light in a vacuum i.e. the near vacuum of interstallar space is a constant. The experiment you refer to is measuring the speed of light in a medium other than a vacuum i.e. cesium gas, which of course is not a vacuum. In no way does this experiment invalidate the constant of the speed of light in a vacuum at 186,000 miles per second.

it's arrogant and unlawful for people to tell students the evolutionary guesses of distance outside our solar system is "fact."

Its arrogant that you think that you with what little knowledge on this subject you apparently have and with the errent information you post, think you are more correct than 99.99% of scientists working in these fields. That is what is arrogant. Though it is not unlawful for you to be an ignorant in the subject, it just makes you look stupid.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
This message is a reply to:
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Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


Message 41 of 248 (598213)
12-29-2010 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Calypso
01-29-2010 10:24 PM


Young or old universe
It is ironic. Evolutionist (who are supposed to believe in an old universe) believe that the universe went from a speck to the size of 50 billion light years in a split second as a result of Inflation. Creationists (who are said to believe in a young universe) believe that it took 6 days for this to occur. The creationists believe it took a trillion+ times longer for the majority of the universe to come into existance than the evolutionists believe. 1 split second vs. 6 days
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Calypso, posted 01-29-2010 10:24 PM Calypso has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 5:04 PM Philip Johnson has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 42 of 248 (598214)
12-29-2010 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 4:59 PM


Re: Young or old universe
Of course, that is NOT accurate or correct. It might be true that some creationists really believe that the universe was created in six days but no one else. Everyone that has actually looked at the evidence understands it took about 13.7 billion years for the universe to evolve so far.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 4:59 PM Philip Johnson has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:09 PM jar has responded

  
Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


Message 43 of 248 (598217)
12-29-2010 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by jar
12-29-2010 5:04 PM


Re: Young or old universe
I am referring to the time it took for the universe to be 50 billion light years in size. Evolution teaches that as a result of Inflation this occurred in less that a trillionth of a second, whereas creationists say it took several days.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 12-29-2010 5:04 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Coragyps, posted 12-29-2010 5:15 PM Philip Johnson has responded
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5377
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 44 of 248 (598220)
12-29-2010 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 5:09 PM


Re: Young or old universe
Hi, Philip! Welcome aboard! Is your birthday the eighteenth of June, by any chance?

Evolution teaches that as a result of Inflation this occurred in less that a trillionth of a second, whereas creationists say it took several days.

Which creationists say that inflation took place at all? And which side found the evidence for inflation/an expanding universe?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:09 PM Philip Johnson has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 248 (598223)
12-29-2010 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 5:09 PM


Re: Young or old universe
HUH?

Who told you that?

Do you even understand what that means?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:09 PM Philip Johnson has not yet responded

  
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