Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8936 total)
33 online now:
AZPaul3, Dr Adequate, dwise1, ringo (4 members, 29 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: ssope
Upcoming Birthdays: AdminPhat
Post Volume: Total: 861,703 Year: 16,739/19,786 Month: 864/2,598 Week: 110/251 Day: 63/24 Hour: 2/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Why is it that God couldn't have made Creation with evolution?
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3706
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 166 of 167 (583711)
09-28-2010 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by frako
09-28-2010 1:43 PM


Re: Let me simplify this for you:
There are actually two different questions before us:

1. Is it necessary to invoke a god in order to account for the universe?

2. Given that one already believes in a god, eg in YHWH (AKA "God"), how does one reconcile that belief with the facts of the universe being the way that it is?

These are two different questions and you were responding as if to Question #1, whereas Kyrill's post actually dealt with Question #2.

The problem that some believers face is that they are being taught that the universe must be a certain way or else God is disproven. It is a problem only because that certain way that they prescribe is not the way that the universe actually is, so that in effect they are teaching that if the universe is as it actually is, then that disproves God.

That is wrong and self-defeating. As a result, creationists must deny reality and make contrary-to-fact claims and by all means avoid every really looking at the evidence. And when they do finally really look at the evidence, then they cease to be creationists and in many cases become atheists, just as their religious leaders had taught them to do, had inflexibly insisted that they must do. It's crazy and spiritually suicidal, but that's what they do!

Instead, believers need to find a way to harmonize their beliefs with the way that the universe actually is, rather than try to dictate that the universe must instead be something that it is not. One way is what Kyrill presented, to believe that his god had set everything up and maybe even gave the evolving universe a little nudge here or there to coax it in the right direction. That approach does not require denying nor ignoring any of the evidence, nor does it require the formulation of blatantly false claims nor the need to engage in the deception of others. And the fact that the universe is the way that it is therefore presents no danger to his faith.

Which was the goal to begin with. While adding a god to the mix does nothing to explain the universe, it does in the believer's mind give God a role in things. Phillip Johnson, one of the founders of ID, once expressed the reason for his opposition to evolution as being that it leaves God with nothing to do. Kyrill's approach both shows that there is no reason to oppose or reject evolution and it gives his god an essential role to play.

Among theists, Kyrill's approach is the more mature and the more intelligent one.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by frako, posted 09-28-2010 1:43 PM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by frako, posted 09-28-2010 4:10 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 167 of 167 (583717)
09-28-2010 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by dwise1
09-28-2010 3:41 PM


Re: Let me simplify this for you:
Among theists, Kyrill's approach is the more mature and the more intelligent one.

i agree it is a way more intelligent approach, because you cannot disprove it like you cannot disprove the stranger braking the vase in my earlier example, he could have worn gloves (no fingerprints), and he could have picked the lock whit plastic picks that leave no trace of tampering and re locked the door the same way after he left. absence of evidence is not evidence of absence so there is a possibility that the stranger did it, the same could be said for god in the big bang theory or evolution it is possible though given the evidence it is a very remote possibility and it is impossible for science to disprove it though an educated guess of science would be no god whit these facts as would the jury say the kid did it there was no stranger


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by dwise1, posted 09-28-2010 3:41 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019