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Author | Topic: Can You define God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
2ndReign Junior Member (Idle past 2970 days) Posts: 13 From: Wa Joined: |
quote: I should have elucidated a bit more so the point I was trying to make would have been understood,but anyway, your point is well. made. quote: No you haven't. Me saying that you are human only says that you are not a dog,horse,cow,etc. Edited by 2ndReign, : No reason given.
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crashfrog Inactive Member
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No, quite the opposite. You could say that I was not a dog, not a horse, not a cow, and you'd have to go on down the list of 100 million different species or so. Saying that I'm "human" is saying what I am; being human is more than not being not human. I mean by your construction it's simply impossible to define anything "in terms of what it is", since every positive term connotes the absence of that term's opposites. (I mean "positive" in the sense of "making a logically positive claim", not "positive" as in "favorable" or "good.") I can't say you're greedy without saying you're not charitable, but that doesn't mean that the term "greedy" only describes you in terms of what you're not. There's more to being greedy than simply not being not greedy.
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ProtoTypical Member Posts: 1773 From: Ontario Canada Joined:
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I said
2ndReign said
Not at all. Known or not I dont see how it matters. The universe = everything that is. The most important element of this definition is that it does not require or imply consciousness. This contradicts the Godly quality of omniscience but allows for omnipresence and omnipotence.
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ICANT Member Posts: 6187 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.8
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Welcome to EvC.
I agree. God described Himself to Moses as I AM that I AM. Existence that exists. I like to describe Him as everything that ever was, is, or will ever be. It is a fact such an entity must exist. It makes no difference what existence is it is everything that ever was, is, or ever will be. The universe exists, we exist therefore existence had to exist. There is no mechanism for existence to begin to exist. I call that existence God. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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2ndReign Junior Member (Idle past 2970 days) Posts: 13 From: Wa Joined: |
To put it simply,to say that you are human is to say that you are not an animal,there no need to be pedantic. So by saying what you are,also says what you are not.
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crashfrog Inactive Member
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So, in other words, it's not going to be possible to say what something is without also saying some things that it is not. So the basis from which you've been rejecting all these definitions, like mine, is spurious.
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2ndReign Junior Member (Idle past 2970 days) Posts: 13 From: Wa Joined: |
And you don't see where you have limited God by saying that he is a big as the universe? Lets go with you and say that yes,he is as big as the universe,still isn't that placing a limitation on how big he is?
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2ndReign Junior Member (Idle past 2970 days) Posts: 13 From: Wa Joined: |
No,it was a genuine conceived and asked question. If anything,this question is more academic than anything else. Each side is dead set to believe how they always have. And you are correct with the formal part of your post.
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2ndReign Junior Member (Idle past 2970 days) Posts: 13 From: Wa Joined: |
quote: Hello ICANT,and to you and everybody else,thank you for responding to my post. Yes,that is how the Bible says God described himself. But that's ambiguity,and tautology because it tells us nothing. At least it tell me nothing. You said: quote: Do you believe in "Free Will"? This has to be the ultimate religious dilemma. A God knowing all vs free will,and the dilemma is this: If God knows all then there is only one set of events that can occur. Therefore, there can be no free will because no matter what man chooses, the decision will be the one that God has foreseen,don't you agree? Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live:" Now does it make sense for God to tell Israel to "choose" if there is no free will? And since this implies free will God can't be all knowing. BTW,you have manage to not limit God in defining him. It's like infinity,it's a quantity without bounds. Edited by 2ndReign, : No reason given. Edited by 2ndReign, : No reason given.
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ICANT Member Posts: 6187 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.8
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You stated in Message 1:
What does the existence or non-existence of freewill have to do with defining God? But to answer your question since this is your thread maybe I won't be declared off topic. First to understand God you must know God. How can you understand something you do not believe to exist? So open your mind and you may understand what I am going to say. God is Existence. He is the beginning and the end. God is not limited by time as we are. God stands at the beginning and views the end at the same time. God can still see the man He formed from the dust of the ground and breathed into him the breath of life and he became a living being and placed in the garden. He also sees his disobedience. He sees your birth, and death. He sees and knows every decision you have ever made or will make during your stay here on earth. He knows what your final fate will be. But at all times you have the freedom to accept what He has offered in the form of a free full pardon and eternal life with Him. You control that decision and all other decisions you make with no control by Him. He does not control your decisions even though He knows what they are. He does already know what that decision is because He sees your entire life at the same time. Yes I know that is preposterous. How could someone see the beginning and the end at the same time? Well we are not talking about someone, we are talking about God eternal existence. All knowledge is included in the "everything" I mentioned in my definition of God. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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2ndReign Junior Member (Idle past 2970 days) Posts: 13 From: Wa Joined: |
MY fault,I thought you said that God was all knowing. I re-read your post and saw that this was not the case. You're right, Free Will has nothing to do with our topic.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 427 days) Posts: 1423 Joined:
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The Godhead I know in a nutshell. I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake. “Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.” This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats. During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit. I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis. The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step. I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals. I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help. I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship, it but instead, raise my bar and seek further. My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being. Regards
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Great.Cthulhu Junior Member (Idle past 2329 days) Posts: 3 Joined:
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quote: Faith v Fact The facts tell me that Evolution is verifiable, testable, and proven true. That doesn't require Faith on my part. But I have Faith that God exists, and no, I don't have a problem with accepting Science and yet still believing in God. Call it a dual blind spot, LOL.
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Phat Member Posts: 12045 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.4 |
![]() Personally, I would like to believe that God exists, that God is alone the only entity that has the knowledge of the universe (or multi-verses) at His disposal, or in His database or whatever. Of course I believe that good is more powerful than evil and that God is good.
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Straggler Member Posts: 10284 From: London England Joined: Member Rating: 2.9 |
The term “god” refers to a supernatural conscious being that is responsible for the creation or overseeing of some aspect of reality. Something like the following dictionary definition: 1. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms) a supernatural being, who is worshipped as the controller of some part of the universe or some aspect of life in the world or is the personification of some force Related adj divine Thus things like Thor and Apollo readily qualify as gods. As does the more deistic and ambiguous notion of a supernatural "creator of all that is seen and unseen". The only real difference between the largely abandoned gods and those that more sophisticated theists advocate these days is the degree of ambiguity attached to the concept in question.
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