why is the atheist obsessed with the Bible

I have been using this website for a few years. This is the first time I ever heard anyone boldly say that this website is the property of ATHIESTS.If this is true, please tell me where I MISSED this ownership matter in the Rules or Explanations of the purpose of EVCFORUM. I would simply like to know has this matter of ATHEIST's ownership of the website ever been clearly stated in any invitation for people to post here.So "Bible Study" really should be "Athiest's Bible Study" perhaps ?I mean where did I miss the open and plain declaration that EVCFORUM belongs to atheists ? Not that I ever assumed that it was a Christian website mind you. But no atheists ever said to e "This is OUR website".

I went back to the explanation of the website, and it quite honestly admits that the sponsors favor Evolution. Nothing was said about Atheism. So you have been using the forum for a year. I have about 2900 plus posts out there. And for you to inform me that I don't read or understand what others write doesn't exactly give me the best indication of your own comprehension.Sure, at times, in the heat of these "tag team" verbel wrestling matches, sometimes one gets posters mixed up, as in any very active discussion forum.Don't tell me I have some basic problem with reading and understanding what others wrote.I am liable to take your comment as just an indication that you don't like what I write. Firstly, I notice a lot of people come forward to explain what crash meant. Crash hasn't said a word about it yet. Its nice to have a little help from your friends.Secondly, "our website" was his choice of words. That sounds pretty clear to me.I just asked if that is so, where is it stated. Atheist's can of course have their own website like anybody else.Don't you think the words "you came to our website" indicates the "our" there refers to atheists ? Would the average reasonable reader not interpret it that way, while you're telling me about my reading comprehension ?He did not say "our discussion". He did not say "our thread". He said "our WEBSITE" [my emphasis]. I understand he was responding.Christians like me are unrepentedly evangelistic. Some people react to the announcement of what we think should be the "good news". That is why a militant response is sometimes had, from people who don't want to be told they need to hear this good news.I could elaborate. But that is good enough for now. Well, I guess if that is what he meant, he can now come forth and say "Yes, yes, that's right". I told people here years ago in essence - I am into helping people believe the Bible. Some people are into teaching people how to DISBELIEVE the Bible. I am into teaching people how to BELIEVE the Bible.And mind you, I don't mind atheists coming forward and saying "This is a public website. But its owners are atheists" if I can also say "Fine, I am here to teach someone how to believe the Bible."I think that is a fair up front declaration of our standing. I notice that you disregard 2900 plus posts of a poster here twice as long as yourself and presume to instruct them condescendingly how to participate. That is what I always thought. So it is reasonable that I was curious about the phrase from an atheist "our website".Now let me ask you a question. Do you always go back to the beginning of every thread and read every single post in that thread before you come in for a comment ? That has not been noticed by me. One thing I DO agree with. Many modern day atheists do seem very concerned with what is in the Bible.I have seen them strain out a gnat about how many horses Solomon had or who was REALLY a Roman official when Herod was king.I have seen atheists for YEARS strain out tiny little details in the Bible to choke on.Nice try though. I'll be watching you Nij.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Some people will be turned away from God because of the word of God.Is that statment acknowledgement that all my interpretations are infallible ? No, it is not. But I expect that some people will turn away, at least temporarily from God, because of something they hear from the Bible.If a popularity contest is what you out to win, then perhaps you don't want to help people understand the Bible. I think I do a better job at that then you do. There is also a certain "ugliness" to the twisted, warped, darkened logic of the modernist.There is a hidious ugliness to handling of the Bible by atheist / agnostic hell bent on erecting a refuge around his conscience. It can be an unbelievably ugly spectacle.

That sir, is a ... um ... mistake (putting it politely).Too often I CANNOT EVEN GET to the exceedingly positive things in the Bible because I have to spend so much time debunk twistings and warped diatribes.Many people here don't WANT to hear about the encredible salvation of Christ.Since when did I get chance to elaborate on the encredible bright side of God's word ?"We want to hear about Cain's wife, where did she come from?
We want to hear about whether the whole globe was flooded or not.
We want to hear about a flat earth so we can all get our jollies and laugh at the Bible.
We want to hear about the politics of the Religious Right. Defend that !
We want to hear about 6000 year old universe.
We want to hear about the "mistakes" of Jesus.
We want to hear about how terrible Paul was to invent Christianity.
etc. etc. etc etc. "You want to hear about all this stuff you start thread after thread about. You want to remain forever on a superfiscial level. You rarely LET someone like me get beyond this same old, same old standard skeptic topic mill.If I TRIED to start a thread with ONLY a positive atmosphere, you wouldn't let me do it. And the very next time I try and you come in to drag the discussion down into the superfiscial, I'll show you.Stay Tuned.Look Theodoric, contrary to what some of you might believe about some Christians, we were not all brought up in Sunday School all out lives. I can recall boldly making wisecracks against Christians in highschool. I can recall many debates I had with a particlar "fundy" in college.God had MERCY on me. In a nanosecond, like a laser beam of clear light, it mercifully occured to me one day "He's a Person. God is a living Person."Mock on.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I see. thanks.

I see. Okay, let's give this a little bit of a test.Do you know one thing that is very positive about the cross of Jesus ?Here is it. The cross of Jesus terminates everything that plagues and troubles the fallen man. Paul said "I have been crucified with Christ".He means that when he gets into the realm of the living available Spirit of Christ, he experiences that everything negative of sin and self has been TERMINATED along with Christ's death.This is really positive. You see, most people entertain the thought that Jesus is coming to help us, reform us, or even improve us. No. Paul pioneered to experience that when Jesus died He Terminated the old Adamic nature.Putting a little bluntly, and at risk - Jesus made suicide obsolete. The sinful self can be put to death by identification with Christ. "I HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED WITH HIM".You have a bad temper ? Stand by faith on the truth - "I have been crucified with Christ."You have a problem with lust ? Stand by faith on the word of God - "I have been crucified with Christ".No one who comes to Jesus Christ really has his or her own spiritual experience. What Christ has accomplished becomes available and applicable subjectively though identification with Him."When Jesus was crucified on His cross, He terminated my greedy lustful self. He terminated my evil mood. He crossed out my self pity, my depression, my anxiety, my jealousy, my foolishness."The cross, in the New Testament, is usually spoken of in terms of terminating, putting to death that which plagues us.I don't have to WRESTLE with my lust. I do not have to grit my teeth and say "I WILL do BETTER! I Will do BETTER! I WILL, I WILL, I WILL, I WILL DO BETTER. I will SELF IMPROVE."No. One can stand on faith and unleash great empowering in one's life by declaring "I have been CRUCIFIED with Christ. It is no LONGER I that live. It is Christ who lives in me." This is positive! Christ's cross puts to death, terminates, nullifies those evil aspects of the fallen Adamic nature. He does not self improve you. He terminates and resurrects you.This is very positive. If you have no experiene of identification with Christ, it is hard to understand. But if you DO have experience with applying what Jesus did to your life, it is very confirming.What I mean is this. You come to believe in Jesus as your Savior. You're not too sure about a lot of things. And, oh, these unbelievers and skeptics sound so reasonable. Maybe you're wrong. Maybe God is not real. Maybe Jesus never lived at all let alone died and rose from the dead.Then one day you notice Paul's word and you take it into your own experience, by faith - He notices that things he struggled with for years to no avail, are now getting transformed in him. Something is simply putting his bad habits to DEATH. Some power is TERMINATING the bad things that enslaved him for years.Because of this liberation, because of this experience of freeing in identification with Christ, the believer is CONFIRMED that he must be on the right track. This is evidence, that another life has entered into his being. Someone is mingled and united with his very personality.Ego is gone. Yet it is not totally gone - " ... it is no longer EGO that live, but it is Christ who lives in me, and the life which EGO now lives EGO lives in faith - the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself up for me." The LOVE of Christ is manifested in the action of Christ Distributing Himself into a man's personality. That is God dispensing His divine nature into man, killing of by the cross, the old Adamic germs, and germinating within him a union of the divine and the human - a mingling of God and man.This is very very positive. Athanasius captured it when he said "God became a man so the man might become God".God became man, so that man might become God in life and nature but not in His Godhead. This death and resurrection transforms the believer. Christ's death and resurrection become our history. We can apply Christ's death and resurection.We can APPLY Jesus. Yes. It is encredible that I myself believe this stuff. But its true. That is right. And there are some things which tick us off.I have found the experience of God to be like this: You want God to be on YOUR side. But He wins you over to HIS side so He can show you that He really is on YOUR side.We came into this world, HOODWINKED. You remember the movie The Matrix ? They lived in an illusionary world controled by Artificial Intelligence.We came into this world as into an evil MATRIX which without God's mercy, we cannot possibly detect.The Triune God has to DISPENSE His life and nature into us to free us out of this LIE. Christ was totally out. Paul and others GOT OUT. They got out of the lie and into Christ. And into Christ is in union with the uncreated and divine life of God.I know some of these words sound strange to you. In light of what I share above - all who come to receive Christ must realize this fact - we have been crucified with Christ. We have been raised with Christ.You may think that this is a postive wishful thinking. This is not wishful thinking. It is standing on the divine facts. Whether I agree with Sodom or do not agree with Sodom, I and every heterosexual and homosexual has the same fact - WE have been CRUCIFIED with Christ and RAISED UP with Christ.Whatever you are, I am pretty sure that if you stand by faith on the facts that you have been crucified with Christ, buried with Christ, and raised with Christ, you will be brought into a more truly joyful existence."Lord Jesus, I may not agree with everything in the bible. I may not like some things I read in the bible. And some religious people have a real bad flavor about them Lord. But I know that I have been crucified with you. I have been buried with you. I have been raised with you. I stand on this fact."This kind of identification with Christ will release joy and empowerment, and a rich humanity in your life. You will enjoy God and you won't want to go back to the old sad life of sin.The perfect human life of Jesus Christ can be distributed and dispensed into people through His Spirit. He is available. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Demonstrate with quotations please.Where do you see this confusing ? Take the exact post you are refering to above.

1.) We're created in the image of God. That makes us quite precious.2.) Though created in the image of God man fell into rebellion and sin against God.This might be compared to a fine radio that was discarded in the mud. It no longer plays anything but ugly static. Its design though is quite precious.So you are wrong in my evaluation of man's worth. And you nicely demonstrate the danger of assuming that one post embraces the full scope of Christian theology.But with those eager to misunderstand, this is an assumption they are quick to make - "Quick. Find something to choke on."Lastly, God became a man. This speaks of the worth of man to God. Probably your estimation of man is far far lower than mine. Your homie Darwin probably filled your little head with man is no more than an ape with the hair shaved off.So I'll take the Bible's estimation of the worth of humanity over yours any day.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Did you notice I never mention the word Christianity? You guys do. I mention Christ a lot.The little that I did describe was about being transformed into the image of Christ. The easy market Christianity is not about transformation but about going to a happy place, Heaven.The more superfiscial view is that a sinner is forgiven to be taken to a happy place. And often the emphasis is that that occurs when you die. This makes God a God of death more than of life.And transformation is usually neglected. And I quoted to you Athanasius's insight that God became man so that man might become God.If you think that is easy marketing Christianity, I suggest you see what kind of look you get when you tell some Fundamentalist that you heard - God became man so that man might become God.Get back to me and tell me what he or she said in response. Nothing ? You missed it. So smart you are and so blind. "It is no longer I that live, but it is Christ who lives in me."That's it right there. Living Christ. Living through Christ. Letting Christ live in and through you. Living in union with Christ.Don't look now, but that is what being a Christian is all about. Sigh.Jar, get a grip for a moment. Does that fact that Jesus died for our sins mean that He did NOT come also to teach us to be Human ?Why the false dichotomy? Why the EITHER / OR ?Here' how Jesus said to be Human - (one place at least) "As the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)Jesus lived by assimilating, digesting, internalizing all that His Father was. Now He has been prepared so that if we do the same with Jesus, we also will live because of Him.The obstacle to man coming into communion with God is SIN.Your sins make the separation. You sins make the barrier. God is ONE for whom a more righteous one can not be imagined.For us to come forward to touch God He has to deal with the obstacle of our sins. Our sins are real guilt. The actual and real guilt of our sins must be dealt with by Christ's redemption.So on the way for us to live normal high humanity God must deal first with the insulation between us and Himself. And that insulation, that obstacle is dealt with by Christ's redemptive death on the cross. This passage speaks of the living Christ being in a form in which He can be imparted into millions of people all over the globe in different times: "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 cor. 15:45)Christ as a life giving Spirit can give the divine ZOE life of God into man's being. Life giving Spirit really means God Giving Spirit or Christ Giving Spirit.He gives His life to us by being in the form of life giving Spirit.Yet He also did sacrifice His life for us. And this can be seen in Paul's word - " ... the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (See Gal. 2:20)The giving Himself UP for Paul means His giving Himself up to His redemptive death on the torturing cross. He gave Himself up and sacrificed Himself. I like humor just as much as the next guy. This is frivolous. Yes, the Christian is taught to do these things.But more accurately he is taught that Jesus is alive and available. And we are to let Jesus LIVE AGAIN, only this time from within us. "Abide in me and I in you. "This is a command coupled with a promise. "Abide in Me AND I in you".The command is that we are to get into realm, the sphere of the living Jesus. The promise is that He in turn with saturate us and live in us.He is emphatic that without abiding in Him as an available and living Lord, we can do nothing. Right here: "Abide in Me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me." The life juice of the vine must flow into the branches that are connected to the vine. "I am the true vine, and My Father is the husbandman." (John 15:1)"I am the vine; you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit; fpr apart from Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5)What the branches produce comes out of the flowing of the life from the vine into the branches. Without abiding in the True Vine we can do NOTHING.We may think we can do a lot of things apart from Christ. In the end, before God it will all account as NOTHING. Because apart from abiding in Christ we can do nothing for God's eternal kingdom.Now, nowhere in the chapter does Jesus tell the disciples HOW to abide in Him. Listen.The secret to HOW to abide in Christ is the see the revelation that the saved sinner is indeed IN Him. He does not need to fight to get into Him. He does not need to struggle to get into Him. He must simply SEE that he, as a forgiven sinner, is a BRANCH in the true Vine of Jesus Christ.Once you receive Christ as Lord and Savior you can see the revelation that you are already IN Him. We linger and remain in that vision and His life flows to us and is expressed out from us. Okay. And it is about WHO is the source of that living. It is not about the source in a sentimental way "now all you people go home and be good people. Be like Jesus."No. It is about the resurrected Christ living in His people and Himself being the Source and the vitality of that living - [b]"it is not longer I who live but it is Christ who lives in me." I do not agree. But I am glad you are reading the Bible.At the very end of the Bible you have the climax. You have the final goal. At the end of the Bible you have the ultimate consummation of all of God's operation throughout history.What do you have at the end ? What is the final outcome of all of God's salvation work? It is a "city". It is a city called "New Jerusalem" .This city is total mingling and organic union of God and man. This city is also called the temple of God. It is a living place where God lives. She means that God lives in man and man lives in God. "Abide in Me and I in you" of John 15 reaches its final consummation in Revelation 21 and 22. That is the mutual organic joining of God and man. In short the mass production of sons of God.If there is a greater meaning of human life, I don't know what it is.It is more meaningful to God WHO is in you as the Source of your life then the outward things you do. He only cares for His Son. He only wants His Son. He has fired everyone and replaced them all with His Son.But this Son, with whom God is solely pleased, can be dispensed into man. This Son, Who alone pleases the Father, can be imparted and distributed into man.God‘s Economy: recovered by Witness Lee, enjoyed by local churches Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I still stand by that because that is what the word of God itself claims. Some people may be turned away from the Lord Jesus because of my immaturity.Granted. Maybe my self come through. Maybe I make a mistake in teaching.I said it before. I'll repeat it. I do not think all my interpretation of the scripture are infallible.Now you can wait for a PERFECT Christian to come along. You can wait until some Christ loving Christian who never makes any mistakes and never displays any spiritual immaturity comes along. Go ahead.But I came to Jesus after a long line of imperfect lovers of Jesus told me this and that. I don't think any of them were PERFECT.Or you can concentrate of Jesus Himself.But I will stand one day before my Lord. And if I have turned away someone from God because of ME in an ungodly way, I'll answer to the Master for that.Fortunately, there is a remedy for my mistakes. But I will withhold that for now.Savor a little bit longer that I am not the perfect messenger. But here is what concerns me. The day may come when God will say -"Mr. Unbeliever, I sent to you a educated person and you didn't listen. You thought, She's too filled with books.I sent to you a simplistic person less educated person, and you didn't listen. You thought. He has no learning. What could he know.I sent to you an old person, and you thought, He's too old fashion!Then after awhile sent to you a young person, and you said, He's too young. What does he know?I sent serious person, And you thought, He's tooooo religious!Then I sent to you a light hearted person. You said, He doesn't take this matter seriously enough. I can't listen to him about Jesus.Whatever you complained about, I sent you what you thought you should hear the message of salvation from. And you always had an excuse.Now your time is up. "Ringo, DON"T WAIT FOR THE PERFECT CHRISTIAN TO COME ALONG.If I'm turning you away from Jesus. This will be the last time I will talk to you. If that will help. I'll get out of your way.But Ringo, Don't wait for the perfect messenger. There is only one who is perfect. That is Jesus Himself. See. You even get the last word. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Okay.I think I'll leave this thread now.
thanks for the conversation.I usually hang around at the Bible Study Room.

The revelation states that man is far more than just the physical.You know, the modern thought is that the universe is dying out. In the mean time we are specs on a second rate planet by accident. Either the super nova of our sun will gobble us up the ashes of the universe will expand into the coldness of infinite space.Man is absurd. There is no objective meaning to human life for the atheist. Any meaning is illusionary. Sure, you could say "The purpsoe of life is to hit more home runs then Hank Aaron."But there is no objective meaning. So I think the Bible's proclamation of man made in the image of God and for God is more meaningful.I mean He seems to want you for eternity - "That whosoever believes into Him might not perish but have eternal life" In Bible there is a very WIDE scope of recorded dealings of God with sinners. Noah's flood is not the end of the book.In this wide scope, I see that on one extreme you have the Flood of Noah. On the other side you have God showing mercy to an entire nations even when God's prophet was reluctant for them to have a chance to repent.The book of Jonah is in the same Bible. And its theme is God's RELUCTANCE to have to judge a nation. So I balance my reading of the Noah flood with the book of Jonah.I very much want to explore the entire spectrum of God's ways.I think it is God's responsibility to show us all the possible outcomes along this wide spectrum. And the extreme severe dealings have to be included with the merciful dealings.Do you know who lived the longest in the bible? His name was Methusaleh. He lived 960 plus years.Do you know what his name means ? It means something like "When he dies it will come". Many teachers believe that the "it" that is to come refers to the flood of Noah.So, the longevity of Methusaleh "when he dies it will come" suggests that God prolonged the time as much as His righteousness would allow Him to do so. Judgement is His "strange work".But He is righteous. God is one for whom a more righteous one cannot be imagined.And it is His responsibility to ALSO show us that judgment WILL not be denied when it must come for His rigthteous being's sake.Now, we see in the story of Noah, God's salvation too. We see a new beginning. We see a preservation not only of people for a new beginning but of the environment also. We see His plan of salvation for man and for animals.And He prolonged the time as long as He possibly could, When the oldest living human being FINALLY expired God had, by His own righteous being, bring in judgment.But He also saved 8 people for a new beginning.So, I guess with me, I just have to take into account the fuller scope of ALL that the Bible tells me. Apes are cool. So are dolphins and so are chimps and ants. But they are not as high as human beings. So I can say "Apes are wonderful. Bless their hearts. BUT, human beings are better."And Jesus said that not a sparrow falls to the ground without His Father. But we are of more value then the sparrows. So Jesus also taught that as good as animals were, man meant MORE to God then they.God became a man. So man must be important. He did not become a gerbil or a hedgehog. The Word did not become an gorilla. But the Word became flesh - Humanity. So the worth of man is seen in the fact that the incarnation of God was to a man rather than a beast.But beasts are cool too. I use to have a pet king snake. I've had cats and dogs and birds and mice. So I like animals.But man is unique because he has a spirit to contact God. And man is made to live in God and have God live in him. The problem here is that so much of your sentiment is probably based on Judeo/Christian ethics to begin with.Someone said they saw on a train a little child sitting on the lap of a parent and trying to smack the parent in the face. Without the child sitting on the parent's lap it would not be able to reach the face of the parent to slap it.So when I hear a lot of athiests try to scold God it seems that they do so from the vantage point of having ingested so much Judeo/ Christian ethical philosophy to begin with.How much of your sentiment about the worth of man, the good works of humanitarian activity is inspired perhaps subconsciously, by something in the Bible ?You sit there and scold God and believers in God about the worth of people, freedom from hunger, good deeds, liberation, the sparring of the innocent, justice, etc.So while you are sitting there wagging your finger in God's face, your positioned on the lap of a lot of Judeo/ Christian morality that is at the foundation of this Western culture.In order to get close to God to give Him a good slap you have to be positioned on a lot of ethics and morality you derived from Judeo / Christian worldview.You didn't derive all that ethical thought from Stone Henge or the Egyptian Ra.