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Author Topic:   Existence After Death
Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3374 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006


Message 46 of 163 (581924)
09-18-2010 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by AricVader
09-14-2010 9:56 PM


Life after death a scam?
It might be a good idea to consider that life after death is one of the most powerful marketing tools that religions possess, even though there is no evidence of any such occurrance.
My considered opinion is that the life after death notion is a con game designed to fill pews and collection boxes.
There is a brilliant satire called "Kissing Hank's Ass" that makes this point. It's easily found online.

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 47 of 163 (582155)
09-20-2010 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Rahvin
09-17-2010 3:21 PM


Re: Absolutes again
Do you want to die today, Theodoric? Did you want to die yesterday? The day before? Do you anticipate wanting to die tomorrow? Perhaps next Tuesday? Next year? When do you anticipate that you will want to die, assuming that chance and entropy don't make that decision for you?
In 2003, about 3,500 Belarussians killed themselves. In South Korea in 2009, more than 15,000 people killed themselves. Even in the United States, with a relatively low suicide rate, about 33,000 people killed themselves in 2005. To this list of people who consciously ended their own lives, we must also add those who attempted but failed; those who wanted to kill themselves but were too scared of the potential pain, those who wanted to die but feared the humiliation of trying and failing; those who wanted to die but felt this would be too cruel to those left behind; and prsumably others who desire death but had different reasons for not getting round to it.
Clearly, the idea that everyone wants to preserve their own life indefinitely is a nonsense.

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BarackZero
Member (Idle past 4854 days)
Posts: 57
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 48 of 163 (585407)
10-08-2010 8:28 AM


Life After Death
Among many other scientific researchers, Elisabeth Kubler-Ross wrote of her innumerable findings of life after death. Dr. Kubler-Ross had patient, after patient, after patient, who recounted family members who they said were dead and waiting for them. This they did when Dr. Kubler-Ross thought the subject family members were indeed alive.
She states that never did anyone near death slip away after telling her something that was not so.
Excuse this and many other findings how you wish.
As S. Fred Singer states in his fine book, Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, at one time, Copernicus was the only one in the world who thought the earth revolved around the sun, but he was right.
Consensus is not remotely scientific.
God has placed in the heart of every man a longing that is reflected in the poster's original message. Either you will worship God, or you will worship something, anything else. So many atheists, such as Richard Dawkins, worship themselves.

Replies to this message:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 49 of 163 (585414)
10-08-2010 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by BarackZero
10-08-2010 8:28 AM


Re: Life After Death
Hello BarackZero, welcome to EvC!
BarackZero writes:
Among many other scientific researchers, Elisabeth Kubler-Ross wrote of her innumerable findings of life after death. Dr. Kubler-Ross had patient, after patient, after patient, who recounted family members who they said were dead and waiting for them. This they did when Dr. Kubler-Ross thought the subject family members were indeed alive.
And this is evidence of life after death how?
She states that never did anyone near death slip away after telling her something that was not so.
And she knew they did not tell her something that was not so how?
Excuse this and many other findings how you wish.
What findings? She was told stories by people. Those are not findings.
As S. Fred Singer states in his fine book, Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, at one time, Copernicus was the only one in the world who thought the earth revolved around the sun, but he was right.
And Mr. Singer knows that Copernicus was the only one to think so how?
Consensus is not remotely scientific.
Scientific consensus, however, is.
God has placed in the heart of every man a longing that is reflected in the poster's original message. Either you will worship God, or you will worship something, anything else.
I worship nothing.
So many atheists, such as Richard Dawkins, worship themselves.
I don't worship myself, and have not met an atheist yet who does. And I think I know myself a bit better than you know me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by BarackZero, posted 10-08-2010 8:28 AM BarackZero has replied

Replies to this message:
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BarackZero
Member (Idle past 4854 days)
Posts: 57
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 50 of 163 (585464)
10-08-2010 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Huntard
10-08-2010 8:58 AM


Re: Life After Death
Argue with somebody else.
Dr. Ross spoke with dying people, often children.
You are, of course, much wiser than she or any other medical researcher.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Huntard, posted 10-08-2010 8:58 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 51 of 163 (585468)
10-08-2010 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by BarackZero
10-08-2010 12:17 PM


Re: Life After Death
Argue with somebody else.
But you're the one doing the talking.
Dr. Ross spoke with dying people, often children.
You are, of course, much wiser than she or any other medical researcher.
No-one has yet disputed her claims.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 52 of 163 (585469)
10-08-2010 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by BarackZero
10-08-2010 12:17 PM


Re: Life After Death
BarackZero writes:
Argue with somebody else.
Why? You are the one bringing this all up.
Dr. Ross spoke with dying people, often children.
So?
You are, of course, much wiser than she or any other medical researcher.
I never said that.
Edited by Huntard, : No reason given.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 53 of 163 (585472)
10-08-2010 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by BarackZero
10-08-2010 12:17 PM


Re: Life After Death
BarackZero writes:
Dr. Ross spoke with dying people, often children.
I think you'll find that testimony from "beyond the grave" invariably reflects the ambient culture. A Muslim will interrupt his frolicking with seventy-two virgins to reassure the dying that Islam is the One True Faith™. A Native American will proclaim that the Happy Hunting Ground is overflowing with buffalo. A Baptist will confirm that the streets of Heaven are paved with gold and every mansion is bigger than the one next to it.
Eyewitness accounts are always unreliable, even when the witness is dead.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 54 of 163 (585479)
10-08-2010 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by AricVader
09-18-2010 1:32 AM


There was a story on a topical new program in the 90s (The Day Today) about an experiment looking into the existence of souls that seemed pretty valid, reliable and generalisable to the wider human population.
It was performed on a small sample of mice who were starved for several days.
They were fired at a wall by a special gun (unfortunately killing them in the process).
On a shelf 37.5 cm higher than the impact point of the mouses head were 12.5 grams of cheese.
If the mice had a soul they would be hungry and as they floated up to heaven they would try to eat the cheese.
A special camera that can detect souls was set up to record any evidence of the mouses souls trying to eat the cheese.
I never found out what the results were.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 55 of 163 (585489)
10-08-2010 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Larni
10-08-2010 12:42 PM


There was a story on a topical new program in the 90s (The Day Today) about an experiment looking into the existence of souls that seemed pretty valid, reliable and generalisable to the wider human population.
I volunteer to be in the control group.

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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 56 of 163 (585505)
10-08-2010 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Larni
10-08-2010 12:42 PM


A special camera that can detect souls was set up to record any evidence of the mouses souls trying to eat the cheese.
umm if they had a special camera that can detect souls why kill the mice in such a way any method would do and you would see a flying mouse soul ??

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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dyluck
Member (Idle past 4914 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 10-06-2010


Message 57 of 163 (585539)
10-08-2010 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by BarackZero
10-08-2010 8:28 AM


Re: Life After Death
Hi everyone! Just found this forum! very intriguing!
Reading everyone's comments here! very interesting stuff.
One thing that interests me is people who don't want existance after death or some kind of eternal life.
Originally I had an crazy fear the prospect of living forever. My goodness! how many planets and stones could you count in eternity before you get so board its crazy?
People always told me "heaven will be so awesome and so beautiful that you will be overwhelmed". I thought, sure, for a time, then after you have counted all the stones in heaven and seen everyting you can, you will still be board.
My fear is gone now because, finally, from a Christian perspective, I realized that it's not about heaven or even living forever for that matter. Its about God and his eternal glory. I look at it this way. Eternity, with God, will be so amazing that a heaven is a sideline "bonus". Its not about heaven or living forever. It is about God and always about Him. Say there was day and night in heaven. The first day being with Him would require a strenghening and unbelievable glory standing at his Footstool that is so inexplainably winderfull that he would have to maintain your strength to even be within his Glory. The next day, you go to bed, wake up and moreso ever increasing is His eternal glory that the power overwhelms you with Joy unbelieveable so much that you must be strenthend to be in his power. We will spend eternity chasing down God and the Face of Christ and never be board because God is infinite and so beautiful that no bricks, no games, no stupid doctrines of bliss and virgins would even be near your mind but the glory of the everlasing God.
BarakZero, just wanted to quote on this:
quote:
God has placed in the heart of every man a longing that is reflected in the poster's original message. Either you will worship God, or you will worship something, anything else.
You are right, let me expand. We are indeed a slave to 1 master. Righteousness or Sin. The bible is very clear that nobody truely seeks him and infact everybody hates him. If it wasn't for the supernatual work of God to change someone's heart, even that person, too, would hate God because it is his depravity.
It is presumptious to say to an Athiest that he is self indulgent and self worshiping; however, the product of Athiesm is self worshiping because an Athiest has no reason to submit to anything else but Self.
I dont' understand Agnostics though. They believe there is a God or higher power, but most don't live like there is one.
Biblically, there is no excuse for either. A difficult passage to accept but looking around at the majesty of this world and the expanse! This wasn't chance.
Romans 1:18-20
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fix quote box. Did not have the "/" before the "quote" at the end.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by ringo, posted 10-08-2010 5:40 PM dyluck has replied
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seanfhear
Junior Member (Idle past 4592 days)
Posts: 23
From: California
Joined: 09-28-2010


Message 58 of 163 (585541)
10-08-2010 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by AricVader
09-14-2010 9:56 PM


Existance After Death
AricVader writes:
So if anyone has any facts or comments on this issue that may be able to help me understand the issue more I would appreciate the information. Above all I will always try to strive for the truth even if I do not like where it leads me.
Does anyone know of a verified instance of a human coming back to life after a medically verified condition of no brain activity? This would be the person to ask what happens AFTER death. If there is or has been no such person alive then it’s a pretty safe bet that since billions of humans have died that there is a gag order enforced on the dead or that they’re just dead, gone, kaput and live only in the minds of those who are alive to remember them.
Carl Sagan died about 14 years ago but when I watch his videos it is hard to think of him as dead because we were contemporaries. When I watch videos of Franklin Roosevelt I do not think of him as alive because we were not contemporaries. Anyone else have the same feelings? Does death begin to break the links of shared memories?

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices."
Voltaire

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 59 of 163 (585546)
10-08-2010 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by dyluck
10-08-2010 4:59 PM


Re: Life After Death
dyluck writes:
The bible is very clear that nobody truely seeks him and infact everybody hates him.
Maybe He should take the hint.
dyluck writes:
I dont' understand Agnostics though. They believe there is a God or higher power, but most don't live like there is one.
You have that backwards. Atheists and agnostics often have a higher standard of morality than theists because they empathize with their fellow humans instead of seeing them as depraved sinners. They understand what it means to love their neighbours instead of just following orders.
As for the topic, you make Heaven sound like heroin. Don't you think all that glory might have some side effects?
Edited by ringo, : Splling.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 60 of 163 (585548)
10-08-2010 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by frako
10-08-2010 2:07 PM


umm if they had a special camera that can detect souls why kill the mice in such a way any method would do and you would see a flying mouse soul ??
That's what the special gun is for and the camera could only detect normal mouse souls (I think that's what the program said), not flying mouse souls.
Edited by Larni, : Mice can't fly!!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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