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Author Topic:   The Nonsense of Revelation 13 Economics
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 274 (585891)
10-10-2010 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by ICANT
10-09-2010 10:30 PM


Re: Mark
ICant writes:

jar writes:


Nope. In fact it says that everyone gets the "Mark", not that everyone but Christians get the "Mark'.

If everybody has the mark why is the penalty for not having the mark not being able to buy or sell?

Good point, brother. There are corroborating Revelation scriptures which alude to the fact that Christians should refuse to take the mark.
Revelation 14:9-13; ASV:

And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name. 12Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 16:2And the first went, and poured out his bowl into the earth; and it became a noisome and grievous sore upon the men that had the mark of the beast, and that worshipped his image.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought the signs in his sight, wherewith he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshipped his image: they two were cast alive into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

ICant writes:

jar writes:


no mention of a global monetary system

I don't know if there will be a global monetary system but I do know that everybody in the world will receive the mark, name, or number of the beast or they won't be able to buy or sell.

Every tribe, tongue and nation and the terms buying and selling clearly implies a global monetary system.

ICant writes:

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

We are also told that every person that does not worship the image of the beast will be killed.

Again, right on; clearly global government. This same 10 horned beast global gubm't is alluded to in the OT. (Daniel 7) and in Revelation, chapter 17 as well, all implying a global regime.

Jar and other skeptics choose to disregard the fact that the powers that be in the nations today are pressing toward global government. Islam also aspires to become the theocracy which will wield the power to force worship on all nations enforce by threat of death (likely beheading as per Revelation 20:4, cited above.) Beheading is the likely and traditional Islamic method of execution.

This end time global rise and rapid expansion of Islamic aggression is apocalyptic, as prophesied in both OT and NT.

ICant writes:

jar writes:


So is there any support for the claim that Revelations 13 contains ANY prophecy related to some future monetary system?

It seems that there is a system that to buy or sell you have to have a mark, name, or number in your hand or your forehead.

I am not sure but I think that would qualify as a monetary system.

No doubt about it. It's not so future. It's obviously emerging. Secularistic skeptics who avoid any acountability of a higher power have a vested interest in denying anything alluding to a higher power.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ICANT, posted 10-09-2010 10:30 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Nimrod, posted 10-10-2010 10:41 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 10-10-2010 11:13 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 47 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2010 5:05 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 274 (585894)
10-10-2010 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by PaulK
10-10-2010 8:33 AM


Corroborated End Time Events
PaulK writes:

A brand on hand or forehead is certainly a better fit for the "Mark of the Beast" than anything proposed by those taking a futurist interpretation.

Marks and numbers are being implanted in tiny computer chip inplants. This is the obvious likly methodology of how it emerges into fulfillment.

There's loads of corroborating prophecies, either fulfilled or emerging into fulfillment, in both OT and NT, all corroborating a Biblically prophesied end time apocalypse. This prophecy is just one of the many.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by PaulK, posted 10-10-2010 8:33 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by PaulK, posted 10-10-2010 9:55 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 30 by jar, posted 10-10-2010 2:12 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 274 (586024)
10-10-2010 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by PaulK
10-10-2010 3:29 PM


Re: Revelations and Prophecy
PaulK writes:

And how can Buz be proven wrong ? With no time limit he can always say that it's coming soon until the day he dies. Anyone who actually follows international affairs can see that it isn't coming soon. There are too many disputes over exchange rates and arguments over national sovereignty to consider a global currency even a remote possibility in the forseeable future. And just look at what is happening with the Euro ! A global currency would be a far more difficult problem !

There are things yet to be completed before Armageddon and the 2nd advent of Jesus etc. Armageddon, the finality of the end times when Jerusalem is invaded are in the relative near future; most likely within the next 40 years; likely sooner than later.

All that needs to be observed for the Buz take on these prophecies is a continuation of the progression of corroborating events as prophecied; that is, progression towards one world monetary marks and numbers, progression of hostility towards Israel (that is after a prophesied 3 1/2 year truce), progression towards persecution of Christian (i.e. the great tribulation), progression of the expansion and rise of Islam, continued dimishment of the Wester powers, including the US and the increase of powers via a Russian, European and Islam block nation alliance emerging into the final superpowers ever increasing their allied domination of the UN global beast/final Gentile global empire.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. Address only topic related comments, if there are any.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by PaulK, posted 10-10-2010 3:29 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Nimrod, posted 10-10-2010 8:38 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 76 by PaulK, posted 10-11-2010 1:51 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 274 (586060)
10-10-2010 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Nimrod
10-10-2010 8:38 PM


Re: More examples below. (or above)
Nimrod writes:

Just like Buz using a Revelation thread to claim that the Bible talks about Islamic persecution of Christians as prophecy when Jews seem to be singled out as these "end-times" meanies to Christians (how can one escape this conclusion when Buz places Revelation as describing end-times events?).

"Off-topic", Im sure will be the responce if I get any at all.

Nimrod, I'm not off topic. I've been into the prophecies for 60 plus years since a teenager back when Israel became a nation as prophecied. Perhaps sometime you will understand that in order to figure out any given Biblical prophecy study entails all corroborating prophecies related to what is being studied. Scripture interprets scripture.

By isolating any prophetic book of the Biblical prophecies you will never come to the correct understanding. That's why novices like Jar, you and some others don't get it right. You're wading in the shallows when you need to be swimming in the deep to engage in prophecy debates.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Nimrod, posted 10-10-2010 8:38 PM Nimrod has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Nimrod, posted 10-10-2010 10:56 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 77 by PaulK, posted 10-11-2010 2:12 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
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