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Author | Topic: Journal Watch: How Could They Print/Not Print That? | |||||||||||||||||||
Omnivorous Member Posts: 3989 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
To paraphrase Art Linkletter, sometimes science journals print the darndest things.
With some regularity, we come across instances where creationist points of view are published in peer-reviewed journals despite the lack of data or analysis. We also hear complaints from creationists about their inability to persuade peer-reviewed journals to publish their papers. Often these cases are discussed tangentially in other threads, and we see neither the controversy fully unfolded nor its resolution. I'd like this thread to track those cases as they arise, allowing us to ascertain what facts we can about the circumstances and then to discuss issues of peer review, bias, editorial judgment, etc. I think it would be particularly useful not only to learn about controversial cases but also to track them with updates, and perhaps sift out some common elements. For our delectation, from the Virology Journal: "Influenza or not influenza: Analysis of a case of high fever that happened 2000 years ago in Biblical time". Tara C. Smith, an assitant professor of etiology, provides a concise summary in her Aetiology blog:
quote: In the comment section at Prof. Smith's blog, Virology Journal's editor-in-chief responds:
quote: So was this a case of a casual "bit of relief" being taken too seriously by its detractors? Should peer review (apparently it was recommended by 2 of 2 reviewers at this BioMed journal) have prevented publication? Were the authors naively engaging in a bit of historical speculation (Did arsenic kill Napoleon?) and science guys are overreacting--or were they sneaking the creationist camel's nose into the scientific tent? I'd say either Creation/Evolution in the News or Is It Science? NB: I follow her blog, and you should, too. Dost thou prate, rogue? -Cassio Real things always push back.-William James
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3989 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Well, with all due respect, your proposed changes would eviscerate my intentions for the thread--focus is good, but not when it narrows so much we miss the larger view.
Nor do I see the single case in hand as being weighty enough to carry a thread on its own. I appreciate the thoughtful sincerity of your response, but...never mind. No harm, no foul: I enjoyed the process. Dost thou prate, rogue? -Cassio Real things always push back.-William James
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3989 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Hi, WK: I don't think moving on immediately to another case will derail the thread at all. That is expressly what I want--opportunities to compare and contrast the merits of all perspectives on these controversies.
I chose the example in the OP precisely because it was so daft: as Tara Smith points out, its internal contradictions alone keep us from taking it seriously--the authors posit a miraculous cure, then attempt to diagnose the malady based on normal, non-miraculous clinical expectations.. I had hoped that even creationist critics of peer-reviewed journals could agree that this odd paper has no place in peer-reviewed journals, and we could move on to other examples they/we find less clear-cut. OTOH, one hears, "What harm does it do?" to defend such material, citing entertainment value, stimulus of the imagination, etc. That seems fairly simple-minded to me, since displacing more rigorous pages is reason enough to avoid daffy fluff that fails on its own terms, and, to my mind, nothing stimulates the imagination like good science. However, we seem to have no defenders for the paper, so perhaps my attempt to provoke discussion erred on the side of daftness. Please do bring another case. I think we can enjoy a finer analysis with multiple cases of all sorts. AbE: I realize the paper is not expressly creationist. Edited by Omnivorous, : add Dost thou prate, rogue? -Cassio Real things always push back.-William James
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3989 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
I see that both papers are viewable as PDFs via your BIO-Complexity link; I'm wading through Axe's now.
The incestuous impersonation of peer-review you describe is striking; it is, as observed in some of the Panda's Thumb comments, akin to the Discovery Institute's tactic of obtaining campus appearance sponsorship from a religious student group, then trying to portray that as acceptance or even endorsement by that university's science faculty. I do think they need to beef-up their copy-editing at BIO-Complexity; emphasis added to the amusing homophonic error in Axe's introduction:
quote: He seems to have wedded a false dilemma to incredulity, but I want to finish the paper before I make that "seems" an assertion. Dost thou prate, rogue? -Cassio Real things always push back.-William James
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3989 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
I've finished Axe's paper. While I can't pretend to understand everything he writes about protein folds (and I'll accept corrections of my misunderstandings humbly), a few things stood out that suggest to me that he is merely dressing up the incredulity of irreducible complexity with big numbers.
He depicts the (more than) literally astronomical number of possible protein folds, then argues that the difficulty of forming a de novo functional fold from that set is a search/sampling problem--finding a gemstone in a vast desert. He refers to (but does not cite) one estimate of the possible physical events in the universe since the Big Bang, notes only a fraction of those events could have pertained to protein folds, compares the two numbers, and concludes there is a vast probability disparity that is a problem for evolution. He also makes this observation:
quote: So it seems to me that he presents familiar ID arguments of irreducible complexity and incredulity dressed up with misleading quantitative analogies. First, he presents the odds of a particular successful protein fold mutation event as comparable to a search of the probability space of protein folds. This sounds awesome--until one considers how many microorganisms, for example, enjoy opportunities for mutation. So he tilts the scale impression by describing a singular search of a vast space, rather than a vast population searching a vast space. He puts his thumb firmly on the scale again when he chooses for consideration protein folds functional in contemporaneous organisms, rather than postulating a simpler protein fold that could benefit a proto-organism, and thus provide grist for evolution's mill. Instead, he blithely describes a world with abiotic amino acids, then notes, "In our world things are strikingly different." That seems particularly disingenuous, since the planet we have does not exhibit the characteristics of the planet when life must first have appeared. So...I don't want to get bogged down in the specifics of his paper, but it seems to me that a solid editorial process and rigorous peer review would at a minimum have excised some of his rhetorical sleights of hand. Perhaps that is why, despite the paper's six month online lifespan at BIO-Complexity, there are only three comments, all with little to no substance. The DI wants the appearance of peer review; unfortunately for them, the appearance is not persuasive, given your outline above--and by settling for appearances, this paper, at least, fails to benefit from the close critiques peer review would have provided. Edited by Omnivorous, : clarity Dost thou prate, rogue? -Cassio Real things always push back.-William James
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3989 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
caffeine writes: Axe writes:
This bit's simply not true. There are amino acids on meteorites. Unless the author's claiming to know something we don't about extraterrestrial life, I don't think you can call that a strictly biological origin. But in our world things are strikingly different. Here we see a planet with amino acids of strictly biological origin That didn't occur to me--you're right. From Wiki, regarding the Murchison Meterorite (emphasis added):
quote: Perhaps some authentic peer review would have raised that objection prior to publication. Dost thou prate, rogue? -Cassio Real things always push back.-William James
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3989 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Again, with emphasis added:
Axe writes: But in our world things are strikingly different. Here we see a planet with amino acids of strictly biological origin... The quote seems clear to me. Dost thou prate, rogue? -Cassio Real things always push back.-William James
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3989 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
I confess I'm puzzled.
In the full quote I first posted, Axe posits an imaginary world with abiotic amino acids; then he claims that our world, in contrast, is without abiotic amino acids. If you read that quote differently, could you explain further? Edited by Omnivorous, : fixed msg link Dost thou prate, rogue? -Cassio Real things always push back.-William James
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3989 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Thanks--I fixed the link.
And, yes, I agree with you about the main problem with his paper. Dost thou prate, rogue? -Cassio Real things always push back.-William James
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