EvC Forum: Existence After Death

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Topic: Existence After Death

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 53 of 163 (585472)
10-08-2010 12:33 PM

Reply to: Message 50 by BarackZero
10-08-2010 12:17 PM

Re: Life After Death

BarackZero writes:

Dr. Ross spoke with dying people, often children.

I think you'll find that testimony from "beyond the grave" invariably reflects the ambient culture. A Muslim will interrupt his frolicking with seventy-two virgins to reassure the dying that Islam is the One True Faith™. A Native American will proclaim that the Happy Hunting Ground is overflowing with buffalo. A Baptist will confirm that the streets of Heaven are paved with gold and every mansion is bigger than the one next to it.

Eyewitness accounts are always unreliable, even when the witness is dead.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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	Message 50 by BarackZero, posted 10-08-2010 12:17 PM		BarackZero has not replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 59 of 163 (585546)
10-08-2010 5:40 PM

Reply to: Message 57 by dyluck
10-08-2010 4:59 PM

Re: Life After Death

dyluck writes:

The bible is very clear that nobody truely seeks him and infact everybody hates him.

Maybe He should take the hint.

dyluck writes:

I dont' understand Agnostics though. They believe there is a God or higher power, but most don't live like there is one.

You have that backwards. Atheists and agnostics often have a higher standard of morality than theists because they empathize with their fellow humans instead of seeing them as depraved sinners. They understand what it means to love their neighbours instead of just following orders.

As for the topic, you make Heaven sound like heroin. Don't you think all that glory might have some side effects?

Edited by ringo, : Splling.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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	Message 57 by dyluck, posted 10-08-2010 4:59 PM		dyluck has replied

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	Message 62 by dyluck, posted 10-08-2010 6:25 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 66 of 163 (585569)
10-08-2010 7:05 PM

Reply to: Message 62 by dyluck
10-08-2010 6:25 PM

Re: Life After Death

dyluck writes:

Hmm do you have to earn an ability to quote in the forum?

You can try this:

[qs=ringo]Blah blah blah....[/qs]

to get this:

ringo writes:

Blah blah blah....

or this:

[quote]Blah blah blah....[/quote]

to get this:

quote:
Blah blah blah....

dyluck writes:

You tell me that mankind isn't depraved? What has gone on in the majority of people's minds would make hitler look like a choir boy.

And Hitler would look like an amateur next to the God of the Bible.

dyluck writes:

Heaven is peanuts compared to the glory of God. I think the only side effect of his Glory is more unbelievable glory.

I think the smell from the ~~crematoria~~ lake of fire would bother some of us.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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	Message 62 by dyluck, posted 10-08-2010 6:25 PM		dyluck has replied

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	Message 72 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 1:40 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 80 of 163 (586328)
10-12-2010 2:54 PM

Reply to: Message 72 by dyluck
10-12-2010 1:40 PM

Re: Life After Death

dyluck writes:

Does not the potter have the right to do with his pottery as he pleases?

No. For one thing, he doesn't have a right to use it as a murder weapon.

dyluck writes:

Honestly, if there is a God, creator of the universe. How can anyone stand against Him?

Now you're conflating right with might.

dyluck writes:

If someone tells you that forgiveness of God is possible, they are wrong. Forgiveness is made possible because God's sacrifice of his Son satisfied His own justice, his wrath due us.

God [voice of Marlon Brando] says: "What have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully with your sinning? [thoughtful pause] I'm gonna make you an offer you can't refuse. [dramatic pause] Kill my son and we'll call it even."

That isn't justice. It's sheer stupidity.

The reason that I (and probably many others) reject fundamentalist dogma is because it's really, really stupid. If there was life after death, I certainly wouldn't want to spend it with such an idiotic god or anybody who's idiotic enough to follow him. (No offense intended.

)

dyluck writes:

Bible says God is the only thing that creates out of nothing. so either you believe that matter itself is indeed infinite, its power is infinite to create such a wonderful place, or there is an infinite creator. Either way, infinity exists and we will have to submit to it.

Non sequitur.

Edited by ringo, : Decapitalized "Dyluck".

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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	Message 72 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 1:40 PM		dyluck has replied

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ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 102 of 163 (586485)
10-13-2010 2:22 PM

Reply to: Message 97 by dyluck
10-13-2010 1:19 PM

Re: Life After Death

dyluck writes:

So, if you made something. A painting for instance. you dont' have the right to either display it for everyone to see or to hide it in your basement or to tear it appart?

As I said, I wouldn't have the right to use it as a murder weapon or to sell it fraudulently, etc. A creator's rights are limited.

dyluck writes:

How do you manage what is right and wrong for a God? If he exists, what are you going to do to stand against him?

Again, what does "standing against him" have to do with right or wrong? If he's wrong and I don't stand against him - even if I have no chance of winning - then I'm wrong too.

dyluck writes:

You are right. It does sound crazy. Yet people infadically believe it. Most people are like you, see it for a scandal and walk away. Some see it as everything to them.

Does it ever occur to you that it sounds crazy because it is crazy? Ask yourself why a god would make up such a crazy-sounding scheme to compensate him for our sins. Maybe you're mistaken about his plan. Or maybe he is crazy.

dyluck writes:

And if there is life after death and this "idiotic god" exists. What you going to do then?

That's Pascal's Wager. I'm not a gambler.

What are you going to do if there's an afterlife and it's ruled by Shiva?

dyluck writes:

How do you reason with non eternity?

"Non eternity" itself is a nonsense term.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 106 of 163 (586489)
10-13-2010 2:30 PM

Reply to: Message 95 by dyluck
10-13-2010 12:39 PM

dyluck writes:

Thing is, most people hate hitler and wished he would have justice on him.

Actually, Hitler is one reason why I hope there is no afterlife. If he repented and became a Southern Baptist just before he pulled the trigger, I still don't want him as a next-door neighbour in Heaven. Same goes for Jeffrey Dahmer, Ronald Reagan, etc.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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	Message 95 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 12:39 PM		dyluck has replied

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	Message 113 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 3:19 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 118 of 163 (586510)
10-13-2010 4:30 PM

Reply to: Message 113 by dyluck
10-13-2010 3:19 PM

dyluck writes:

Would you wish an eternal punishment even on hitler?

No, I wouldn't. If I did, I wouldn't be any better than him.

That's where the problem arises. Most fundamentalists have me consigned to eternal punishment because I've deconverted. There's no doubt that I'm a better person now than I was as a Christian but my fate is much worse. Yet Hitler may be in Heaven and I'm not.

That's why your god's "justice" makes no sense to most people, which implies that your god makes no sense in general. A much more sensible plan would be a cycle of reincarnation or just an end.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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	Message 113 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 3:19 PM		dyluck has replied

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	Message 119 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 4:44 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 122 of 163 (586520)
10-13-2010 5:16 PM

Reply to: Message 119 by dyluck
10-13-2010 4:44 PM

dyluck writes:

See nobody is consigning you to eternal punishment. At the end of the day, you are either for him or against him.

If he kills millions of people with a flood, I'm against him. Are you suggesting that I'm not consigned to eternal punishment for being against him?

dyluck writes:

Ok, good statement, so you tell me what is good justice. How can God be a good judge?

Your god can't be a good judge. He can't be a judge at all for the same reason that Charles Manson can't be a judge. He's the criminal.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
	Message 119 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 4:44 PM		dyluck has replied

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	Message 124 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 5:23 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 126 of 163 (586527)
10-13-2010 5:40 PM

Reply to: Message 124 by dyluck
10-13-2010 5:23 PM

dyluck writes:

You neglect to mention that everyone had the option of choosing to get on board the boat.

No they didn't. Read your Bible. They weren't given that option.

dyluck writes:

No, I was saying that you are either for him or against him. You are either a slave to sin or righeousness.

As I said, if your god is real, I'm against him. I'm against his idea of sin and righteousness. I'm saying that he wouldn't recognize righteousness if it sat down beside him in church. Are you saying that I'm not consigned to eternal punishment?

dyluck writes:

You didn't answer my question. Describe a just judge for me please.

As I said, a just judge must be of exemplary character. Mass murderers need not apply.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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	Message 124 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 5:23 PM		dyluck has not replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 153 of 163 (586899)
10-15-2010 12:31 PM

Reply to: Message 152 by Species8472
10-15-2010 11:54 AM

Species8472 writes:

I know that mainstream psychology dismisses the alternate personalities as just aberations around the core personality. But I really do see them as having a potential to have a soul of their own. They certainly exhibit all signs of being different people existing in the same body.

More than one soul in the same body?

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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	Message 152 by Species8472, posted 10-15-2010 11:54 AM		Species8472 has not replied

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