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Author Topic:   Evolution of Altruism
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 81 of 103 (586829)
10-15-2010 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Phage0070
10-15-2010 2:08 AM


Are bees altruistic by having stingers and the will to use them?
Many Bees, especially honey Bes, are a quite unusual case since they are eusocial and have a very restricted mating setup and atypical genetics. Those stinging bees in such a case will be workers that would never have offspring anyway and are more closely related genetically to their true sisters than would be the case in normal diploid species.
TTFN,
WK
Edited by Wounded King, : *ABE* corrected confused sentence about haplodiploid genetics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Phage0070, posted 10-15-2010 2:08 AM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Phage0070, posted 10-15-2010 3:21 AM Wounded King has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 92 of 103 (586846)
10-15-2010 4:50 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Phage0070
10-15-2010 3:21 AM


Were you going to argue that humans are much more usual when compared to other animals?
Absolutely, humans are much more usual in terms of reproductive genetics and consequently of genetic distance amongst groups.
Are you suggesting that the bees understand that they are not going to have offspring and thus decide to die for the greater good? And to have suicide stingers?
Clearly not, but there is a considerably better kin selection trade off for an organism with a higher relatedness between worker siblings. Humans may show individual acts of self sacrificing altruism but the vast majority of individuals in a eusocial Bee colony are acting altruistically in terms of working for the reproductive benefit of the queen rather than themselves.
It seems to me that if a species can develop self-sacrificing behaviors as beneficial to a group, then why not others?
I agree, my point was that bees are an extreme example because they benefit genetically much more from group centred behaviour than in normal diploid reproducing organisms.
TTFN,
WK

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