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Author Topic:   Existence After Death
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 100 of 163 (586482)
10-13-2010 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by dyluck
10-13-2010 12:39 PM


Re: Life After Death
dyluck writes:
Interesting how, no matter what culture, every one of them has a problem with murder among others. Where does that come from? Where did a cell or primate in evololution ever come to understand what is right from wrong? Who was the first person to say murder was wrong? You see, we live in a culture where it is wrong.
Murder is 'the unlawful killing of a human being by a human being', yes?
A synonym for 'unlawful' is 'wrong', yes?
So your point is: disparate cultures think the unlawful killing is unlawful.
I am not sure that is much of a point.
Different cultures have allowed the lawful killing of people for all kinds of reasons - some of which you would find abhorrent.
e.g.
Child sacrifices
Honour killings
People torn apart by animals for entertainment
etc.
You really haven't thought this through, have you?

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 Message 95 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 12:39 PM dyluck has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 145 of 163 (586783)
10-14-2010 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by dyluck
10-14-2010 6:13 PM


Re: Life After Death
dyluck writes:
Most of land law is build on the 10C
I have no idea how you can say that with a straight face.
Clearly that is not true.
Never legally enforced/prohibited:
"You shall have no other gods before me"
"You shall not make for yourself an idol"
"Do not take the name of the Lord in vain"
"Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy"
"Honor your father and mother"
"You shall not commit adultery"
"You shall not covet your neighbour's wife"
"You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbour"
Occasionally illegal:
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour"
Illegal:
"You shall not murder"
"You shall not steal"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by dyluck, posted 10-14-2010 6:13 PM dyluck has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by caffeine, posted 10-15-2010 5:21 AM Panda has replied
 Message 154 by NoNukes, posted 10-15-2010 12:37 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 148 of 163 (586858)
10-15-2010 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by caffeine
10-15-2010 5:21 AM


Re: Life After Death
caffeine writes:
If you mean never historically, this isn't true - and some of these are still sometimes enforced today. Some of the theocratic regimes of the Middle Easy have laws against idolatry and blasphemy - even Ireland, in modern secular Europe, has blasphemy laws - which they've recently strengthened in contradiction to everywhere else in Europe (though I don't reckon a charge would stand up to legal challenge).
There are all sorts of laws in various US states about 'keeping the Sabbath holy' - prohibitions against the sale of alcohol on Sunday, for example. Adultery carries very strict punishments in some countries - Malaysia, for example.
Laws tend to get more complex over time - laws are amended, rather than removed.
If there was a historical law about (e.g.) coverting, then we would still see signs of it on the law books.
Yes, some countries have a few laws that match the 10C's.
But I do not believe that means they were based on the 10C's.
I would argue that the 10C's are based on 'normal' morality + Jewish/Israelite morality.
I am very certain that murder was considered wrong before the 10C's were invented.
caffeine writes:
dyluck's certainly wrong that all, or even most, law is based on the ten commandments, but most of them have made it into secular law here and there.
If we were to grab a law book from a western country, I doubt if much of it could be tied to the 10 commandments.
It would be full of non-religious, obscure laws.
e.g.
No person may carry a fish into a bar.
All cats must wear three bells to warn birds of their whereabouts.
It is illegal to pick seaweed up off of the beach.
Boogers may not be flicked into the wind.
Edited by Panda, : Made correction to error pointed out by Modulous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by caffeine, posted 10-15-2010 5:21 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Modulous, posted 10-15-2010 8:20 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied
 Message 150 by caffeine, posted 10-15-2010 9:32 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 151 of 163 (586873)
10-15-2010 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by caffeine
10-15-2010 9:32 AM


Re: Life After Death
caffeine writes:
I don't know if there's ever been a law about coveting (how could it be enforced)
I agree.
That means that at least 20% of the 10C's is beyond our ability legislate.
caffeine writes:
many countries have completely rewritten their legal codes. The Czech Criminal and Civil Codes, for instance, are very recent - they're amended from the Communist era codes, which were themselves de novo creations. Sure, they are influenced by old legal traditions and older laws, but some bits - such as laws regarding blasphemy, are simply gone.
Yes, I agree.
Their laws are not based on the 10C's.
caffeine writes:
Amongst countries like Britain with different legal systems, where the ancient bits cling around in statute law long after they become enforceable, the laws are still on the books. Old laws about blasphemy and the preservation of the Sabbath are still there to read, even if they've been superseded by recent laws. There was an attempt to bring a blasphemy prosecution in England fairly recently, which the judge angrily dismissed as a waste of time, so the law was formally abolished as part of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008.
As I said in my earlier posts: they are a few of the 10C's in the legal systems.
The British legal system is constantly growing and changing and the crime of Blasphemy was introduced in the 16th/17th century - and has since been removed.
This shows that English law is not built on the 10C's.
caffeine writes:
It's all well and good to say that these laws (murder and theft and whatnot) are part of standard human morality, but I'm not so sure that blasphemy is. When Christian people put these things in the legal codes, quoting the Bible as they did so, I think it's safe to argue them as coming from the Ten Commandments.
Yes, there are a couple of laws that are influenced by the Bible.
But that is completely different from:
Dyluck writes:
Most of land law is build on the 10C

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 Message 150 by caffeine, posted 10-15-2010 9:32 AM caffeine has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 155 of 163 (586903)
10-15-2010 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by NoNukes
10-15-2010 12:37 PM


Re: Life After Death
Panda, I think you are incorrect about several of the commandments.
North Carolina still allows law suits for alienation of affection (spouse stealing) and criminal conversation (adultery) as do a few other states. These laws were far more widespread at one time.
I realise that it is possible to find countries which will require a 're-shuffling' of a couple of the commands I listed.
But if the legal systems were based on the 10C's then all 10 (well, maybe 8) would have been 'on the books' at the beginning - and not added and removed according to political whim.
But the re-shuffling does not contradict my statement that:
quote:
Most of land law is build on the 10C
is not true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by NoNukes, posted 10-15-2010 12:37 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by NoNukes, posted 10-15-2010 1:35 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 157 of 163 (586912)
10-15-2010 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by NoNukes
10-15-2010 1:35 PM


Re: Life After Death
NoNukes writes:
Then why say that those commandments were never enforced?
Because I wasn't going to spend hours researching evidience for a conclusion that was patently true.
I have elaborated on my first post, but no-one seems to have noticed.
{abe}TBH: It feels like people are "arguing against the analogy, rather than the arguement".
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by NoNukes, posted 10-15-2010 1:35 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 159 of 163 (586914)
10-15-2010 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Species8472
10-15-2010 11:54 AM


Species8472 writes:
The question is this. Treatments for such "disorder" range from merging these personalities into one to downright killing all but one. Isn't this murder?
This question seems the easiest to answer...
Murder is the illegal death of a human.
No death or no illegality: no murder.
So to answer your question: No.
Species8472 writes:
I tend to think of myself as more than just my physical body. I am more than just a collection of molecules. I am more than a collection of firing neurons that are arranged in a specific way. Yes, it is true that I am the result of the specific arrangement of neurons. But what I am is greater than the collection of the parts.
That said, I have been bothered by the concept of multiple personality disorder. I have done some study of this phenomenon in psychology. I know that mainstream psychology dismisses the alternate personalities as just aberations around the core personality. But I really do see them as having a potential to have a soul of their own. They certainly exhibit all signs of being different people existing in the same body.
IMHO: This was the interesting part of your post.
You should request a new thread...

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 Message 152 by Species8472, posted 10-15-2010 11:54 AM Species8472 has not replied

  
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