Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Common Ancestor?
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 117 of 341 (584862)
10-04-2010 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Jon
10-01-2010 8:41 AM


Re: Chimpanzee Genome Project
According to this it says there is a 30% difference between chimps and humans. Differences in chromosome 1,4,5,9,12,15,16,17,18. On chromosome 2 in humans are scattered among parts of several cats and rat chromosomes of these species. They mention the human/rodent ancestor now.
This website mentions many differences between human and chimp such as single base pair substitutions, amino acids changes, inserts/deletes diff, etc.
We are closer to a rat that is 88% identical compared to a chimp 70% identical. Common ancestry is not very convincing to me at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Jon, posted 10-01-2010 8:41 AM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Coyote, posted 10-04-2010 1:23 PM barbara has not replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 121 of 341 (585453)
10-08-2010 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by caffeine
10-05-2010 5:26 AM


Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
If you go to this website you can plug in any combination between species and it will give you the date they split. Here are some examples:
Chimp/Human split Mitochondria 7.0 mya and nuclear 5.5 mya
Mouse/rat/Human split mitochondria 106.2 mya and nuclear 95.3 mya
Cat/Human split mitochondria 112.0 mya and nuclear 94.0 mya
Horse/Human split mitochondria 112.0 mya and nuclear 94.0 mya
Elephant/Human split mitochondria 101.6 mya and nuclear 100.2 mya
Birds/Human split mitochondria 324.9 mya and nuclear 323.6 mya
Does this make sense to anyone?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by caffeine, posted 10-05-2010 5:26 AM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Dr Jack, posted 10-08-2010 11:56 AM barbara has replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 123 of 341 (585462)
10-08-2010 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Dr Jack
10-08-2010 11:56 AM


Re: Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
Its called the Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
The confusion is that all of these critters that split with humans is indicating that we once were able to breed with these species. What would we have looked like when we split? Is this indicating that we once were a chimp, mouse, horse,, elephant or a bird in the past?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Dr Jack, posted 10-08-2010 11:56 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Wounded King, posted 10-08-2010 12:54 PM barbara has replied
 Message 126 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-08-2010 2:15 PM barbara has replied
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 10-08-2010 3:37 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 132 by Dr Jack, posted 10-08-2010 3:46 PM barbara has not replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 125 of 341 (585490)
10-08-2010 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Wounded King
10-08-2010 12:54 PM


Re: Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
You might as well state that we are all related by "name unknown" ancestrial breeding pair of a mouse/Human split because we at least can identify the mouse.
This tree also has the eukaryote/bacteria split to be 2622.2 mya. How could we have split from them when we are made of bacteria from a fusion between two different species of bacteria?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Wounded King, posted 10-08-2010 12:54 PM Wounded King has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-08-2010 2:16 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 131 by Taq, posted 10-08-2010 3:44 PM barbara has not replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 128 of 341 (585520)
10-08-2010 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Dr Adequate
10-08-2010 2:15 PM


Re: Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
I have absolutely no clue what common ancestry means. I do not understand when the Time Tree says a different date for mitochondria that is not the same as the nuclear date. How can they evolve separately when they are part of the same organism?
Every time I think I have a clue as to what you are talking about, someone comments and I realize that I don't. Please explain in simple language how we are all connected in terms of time frames. Many of the dates I listed were before dinosaurs went extinct and I cannot imagine anything resembling today's critters could live along with them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-08-2010 2:15 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Taq, posted 10-08-2010 3:40 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 133 by Dr Jack, posted 10-08-2010 3:54 PM barbara has not replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 136 of 341 (586113)
10-11-2010 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Dr Jack
10-11-2010 6:43 AM


Re: Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
The Time Tree gives a split date for eukaryotes and bacteria of a nucleotide date of 2622.0 mya. Can someone please explain this to me?
What formula is used for the molecular clock model? Is carbon dating of bones used in the model?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Dr Jack, posted 10-11-2010 6:43 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Coyote, posted 10-11-2010 10:20 AM barbara has not replied
 Message 138 by Dr Jack, posted 10-11-2010 11:07 AM barbara has replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 139 of 341 (586767)
10-14-2010 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Dr Jack
10-11-2010 11:07 AM


Re: Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
rRNA is the location where the protein is made correct?
The protein meaning what it makes such as bone, tissue, organs, etc. right?
So looking at a bunch of organisms to build a tree based on rRNA is still the same method that as used prior to genetics based on morphology likeness and differences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Dr Jack, posted 10-11-2010 11:07 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Wounded King, posted 10-14-2010 5:39 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 142 by Dr Jack, posted 10-15-2010 5:38 AM barbara has replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 143 of 341 (586943)
10-15-2010 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Dr Jack
10-15-2010 5:38 AM


Re: Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
What information is genes telling you? Some people here do not agree that genes actually carry information. My understanding is you are only able to see what the protein makes in the form of bone, tissue etc.
Considering that most species do share the same proteins because we share the same parts, wouldn't this make the connection between them harder to determine?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Dr Jack, posted 10-15-2010 5:38 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Taq, posted 10-15-2010 5:02 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 145 by Wounded King, posted 10-15-2010 5:45 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 146 by Dr Jack, posted 10-15-2010 5:54 PM barbara has replied
 Message 149 by Nuggin, posted 10-16-2010 5:35 AM barbara has not replied
 Message 150 by frako, posted 10-16-2010 5:47 AM barbara has not replied
 Message 155 by ringo, posted 10-16-2010 11:23 AM barbara has not replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 147 of 341 (586965)
10-15-2010 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Dr Jack
10-15-2010 5:54 PM


Re: Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
Then please explain what information do genes give you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Dr Jack, posted 10-15-2010 5:54 PM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Dr Jack, posted 10-16-2010 2:12 AM barbara has not replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 162 of 341 (587160)
10-17-2010 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by nwr
10-16-2010 5:26 PM


Re: Information rides again
Science creates the dialect used in terminology and obviously have the power to change or alter the definition as they see fit whenever they want to.
The word "information" is constantly used to describe genetics by scientists so why is when a creationist (I hate that word) uses your own term is considered an idiot?
Molecules based on shape and electron configuration that do what physics has assigned in terminology to explain the reaction is information. What else would you call it so you can discuss it. In reality words used to describe life and the definition we assign to it is only relevant to us. In reality words means nothing in the natural world, only in ours.
So when I ask what information are the genes telling you does not mean that I expect DNA to be written in its content so you can tell us what it said it means.
One aspect of evolution is based on evidence of fossil bones and claims genetics back its up. Then I assume that you know which genes is responsible for bone structure, how the body plan is constructed and what mechanism controls the growth of bone.
This is a chemical reaction but in most people's mind it resembles what a chemist does in a lab combining chemicals to produce its results. In a body there is no chemist controlling the experiment so what mechanism prevents us from being a soup of chemicals all mixed together?
Chemical reactions are regulated and kept from another chemical reaction that occurs in the body as well. These two separate chemical reactions cannot be combined otherwise it could not be specialized in its product.
The sequence of nucleotides is said here to be all powerful so one assume it is this sequence that tells you exactly what product it produces. This is information because science has assigned information to it to describe it.
Am I assuming too much of what science really knows so far?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by nwr, posted 10-16-2010 5:26 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Wounded King, posted 10-17-2010 3:07 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 164 by nwr, posted 10-17-2010 4:07 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 166 by Otto Tellick, posted 10-17-2010 10:00 PM barbara has not replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 167 of 341 (587299)
10-18-2010 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by NoNukes
10-16-2010 10:55 AM


Re: Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
If you are given samples of DNA from 4 different critters without telling what those critters were, how would you determine what they are?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by NoNukes, posted 10-16-2010 10:55 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Wounded King, posted 10-18-2010 10:32 AM barbara has replied
 Message 169 by Coragyps, posted 10-18-2010 10:40 AM barbara has not replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 171 of 341 (587350)
10-18-2010 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Wounded King
10-18-2010 10:32 AM


Re: Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
Okay let me ask this another way. What do you need beside a DNA sample to identify 4 different critters in a blind study?
Nij writes in another topic:
Mind is an abstract entity
Strongbow writes here:
Abstract information is the product of an intelligent agent
If life does not equate to abstract then why does one think that humans are the exception?
Either there is no intelligent factor involved or there is, you can't have it both ways.
Edited by barbara, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Wounded King, posted 10-18-2010 10:32 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Taq, posted 10-18-2010 3:09 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 174 by Nij, posted 10-18-2010 10:04 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 175 by Wounded King, posted 10-19-2010 8:02 AM barbara has not replied

  
barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 176 of 341 (588158)
10-22-2010 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Jon
09-27-2010 12:05 PM


Re: Definitions & Feel-good Science
Lions and tigers in nature live in different environments. Humans created an environment for these two to mate. You almost have leave out any species that we had a affect on to get an accurate picture of the past, but would there be any left to help solve it?
Humans have altered global landscapes which alter ecosystems which affect changes to occur in species. Everything we touch or come in contact with we create cause and affect in other life forms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Jon, posted 09-27-2010 12:05 PM Jon has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024