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Author
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Topic: Eternal Life (thanks, but no thanks)
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3983 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 7.0
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vanilla ice cream
BD writes: There is nothing you can say, there is nothing you would ever be able to say that would validate your conclusion that you don't believe that an afterlife is something that would be suitable for you. There is nothing you can say that would validate your conclusion that vanilla ice cream wouldn't be to your taste. So what? If the thrust of your skillet facial is just the epiphany that the dish is unknowable until known, I don't see what you're so excited about. It isn't nonsensical to consider what might become known and how one might find the taste of it. Religions sell afterlives, and Christianity's just another flavor on the board, right between Buddhism and Deism. If it makes sense to sell it, it certainly makes sense to talk about it.
Dost thou prate, rogue?
-Cassio Real things always push back.
-William James
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Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3650 days) Posts: 983 From: China Joined: 11-14-2009
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Well, your father will be there, but in the form of a unicorn like shellfish. Your children were there for a minute, but then they said that they heard one guy named Modulous said that he would prefer nothing to eternity and they agreed, so your 4 year old daughters limbs were ripped apart and a thrown into a cold pit of acid (which is ok, because she was actually just an accidental mutation of a bacteria anyway), and your brother is not there because he was just a figment of your imagination as there is no such thing as a Hindu-Buddhist. The good news is that none of this means anything, because each individual only exists in their own set of circumstances, and has only the ability to accept their own truth.
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Well, your father will be there, but in the form of a unicorn like shellfish. Your children were there for a minute, but then they said that they heard one guy named Modulous said that he would prefer nothing to eternity and they agreed, so your 4 year old daughters limbs were ripped apart and a thrown into a cold pit of acid (which is ok, because she was actually just an accidental mutation of a bacteria anyway), and your brother is not there because he was just a figment of your imagination as there is no such thing as a Hindu-Buddhist. I'd been wondering what sect of Christianity you belong to, and now I finally know. Apparently you're a devout Surrealist.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 167 by Bolder-dash, posted 10-16-2010 12:48 AM | | Bolder-dash has not replied |
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Well, I would never really try to convince someone else about what their own personal beliefs should be, but let's suppose for a moment that in this afterlife is everyone you have ever known waiting there for you. Sounds great.
Or you can say that you will prefer to just disappear into a black void of nothingness. Never find the answers to anything, and never see all your loved ones ever again. Are you really equipped in this world right now to make that choice?
Sounds like an easy choice. I think I'm perfectly equipped right now to decide if I want all my curiosity fulfilled and all my social interactions resolved. There is, after all, a finite supply of that so:- What about eternal life when everything that happened on earth very rapidly becomes a minor chapter in humanity's life? It seems to me that you are saying that neither of us equipped to know what eternal life would be like or whether it would be enjoyable. If we agree on that, then we must both agree that there is no reason to look forward to it - right? Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 164 by Bolder-dash, posted 10-16-2010 12:00 AM | | Bolder-dash has not replied |
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Message 170 of 296 (587003)
10-16-2010 8:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 162 by Buzsaw
10-15-2010 10:51 PM
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Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven Good; Biblical Alternative Bad
All that scripture says about Heaven makes earth life look shabby in comparison, and the Lake of Fire absolutely horrible beyond immagination. Aye.
quote:
{mansions....cities of gold and gems...}
I don't see any reason to care about baubles or why living amongst them for eternity is intrinsically appealing.
One had better be absolutely sure that all of the prophecies cited, the Exodus evidence and other phemonena cited is all bogus before one should not fear the alternative to Heaven stated relative to unbelief and rejection of the gospel of Jesus. I am absolutely sure, and do not have fear that I might be cast into Tartarus or eager anticipation of Elysian Fields.
Modulous, I've stated the above and cited the scripture above to say that there is every reason to aspire to attain Heaven and no logical reason to subject one's self to the alternative who refuse it. Sure - if you're going to say the choices are 'Ecstasy or torture' it's a simple choice. But that isn't what I'm asking about. I'm asking - regardless of how I'm to spend eternal life, given the objections raised - why should I look forward to it?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 162 by Buzsaw, posted 10-15-2010 10:51 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 184 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 2:59 PM | | Modulous has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 171 of 296 (587004)
10-16-2010 8:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 8 by Modulous
02-04-2009 11:40 AM
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Re: Who are you?
Modulous writes: I'm asking - regardless of how I'm to spend eternal life, given the objections raised - why should I look forward to it? *Ducks into nearby phone booth, calls God collect, and asks for instructions*
Phat,as God writes: Modulous! My beloved son! So many questions! *chuckle*...(beams at Modulous) Modulous writes: For reasons I will explain, the concept of eternal life whichever way it is dressed up fills me with either horror or non-caring. If I had a choice I would not accept this offer. Can I not simply request to be sent into the dark absence of oblivion rather than suffering permanent consciousness? It seems highly immoral to force me to do the thing which I would loathe to do. Phat,as God writes: Naturally, I want all of my children to stick around for the adventures that begin after you die, but of course I am capable of granting you the option of ceasing to exist....but tell me why you would want such a choice? Are you simply tired and need some quiet sleep? Please understand that unless I change the laws of the universe, I can't really recreate you once you have chosen to cease to exist. Do you seem to believe that all that you were meant to accomplish has been done? And a question for you to ponder: What is Recreation? Modulous writes: An analogous question would be, if over the 40 years of owning the car, every single component had been changed (including the chassis, the engine, etc etc) - is it the same car? Here is a couple more, along that vein: Did the owner of the car want the upgrade? Assume that the car is analogous to the human body/mind. Have we asked for the upgrades along the way? Were we willing to endure the discomfort that some of them may have temporarily caused? Do we know why we wish to upgrade ourselves, and do we have a goal in mind at the end of our life here on earth?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by Modulous, posted 02-04-2009 11:40 AM | | Modulous has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 175 by Modulous, posted 10-16-2010 10:38 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Well, in your first scenario, you said ALL of our loved ones would be there. I guess you lied about that since only loved ones who believe the same thing as YOU will be there, right? Why would my dad be a shellfish? He wasn't a shellfish in life.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
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Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3650 days) Posts: 983 From: China Joined: 11-14-2009
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Well, I just happen to believe that deep down, some Muslims, seem to be very horny and shellfish. Oh, and also I couldn't help noticing that your avatar appears to be a picture of your father in the afterlife. Edited by Bolder-dash, : No reason given. Edited by Bolder-dash, : No reason given.
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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So your eternally blissful happy place isn't really such, is it? It is only for people who have the same invisible homey, right? My mom is a JW, does she get to come? My aunt, the mormon, will she be there?
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
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Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Message 175 of 296 (587015)
10-16-2010 10:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 171 by Phat
10-16-2010 8:45 AM
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Re: Who are you?
*Ducks into nearby phone booth, calls God collect, and asks for instructions* Finally! 
Naturally, I want all of my children to stick around for the adventures that begin after you die, but of course I am capable of granting you the option of ceasing to exist....but tell me why you would want such a choice? Not having an infinite brain - I cannot conceive eternity. I have seen people desire to end their own existence, and maybe one day too I will want to bring my story to its conclusion. For all I know - even 250 years may be more than enough.
Do you seem to believe that all that you were meant to accomplish has been done? Surely all I care about, Lord, are what I mean to accomplish. If what I mean to accomplish happens to agree with you then that's great - but a task that can never be completed can never be accomplished. So will I get to finally accomplish my purpose or not?
And a question for you to ponder: What is Recreation? Re-creation or recreation? The capitals have thrown me.
Did the owner of the car want the upgrade? Assume that the car is analogous to the human body/mind. Have we asked for the upgrades along the way? Were we willing to endure the discomfort that some of them may have temporarily caused? Do we know why we wish to upgrade ourselves, and do we have a goal in mind at the end of our life here on earth? But why should I care about Modulous mk 2500? An entity so different than I that to call it 'me' would be stretching the meanings of the words to breaking point. I'm not inherently objecting to that - I just don't think it is much to sing and dance about. The part that I might want to 'survive' does not really survive forever.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 171 by Phat, posted 10-16-2010 8:45 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 180 by ringo, posted 10-16-2010 11:53 AM | | Modulous has seen this message but not replied |
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Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3650 days) Posts: 983 From: China Joined: 11-14-2009
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Wait, I thought we were talking about what MY afterlife would be like. Admittedly I could never really know what a blissful eternity would be for you. If I had to guess? I don't know...endless reruns of Murder She Wrote? She always fools those criminals with her clever mind games.
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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So, each eternal afterlife is an individual experience? A figment of your imagination? It is whatever you want it to be? I could have sworn you were a christian......
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 176 by Bolder-dash, posted 10-16-2010 10:42 AM | | Bolder-dash has not replied |
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frako
Member (Idle past 326 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: 09-04-2010
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Wait, I thought we were talking about what MY afterlife would be like. Admittedly I could never really know what a blissful eternity would be for you. If I had to guess? I don't know...endless reruns of Murder She Wrote? She always fools those criminals with her clever mind games. are you keeping track of your sins, every white lie, every time you use the lords name in vain even if you hit yourself on the finger whit a hammer. Do you regret every one of those sins and do not repeat them after you went to confession. If not well your eternal afterlife may involve murder she wrote endless reruns. The only problem would be the picture would go blank every 15 minutes for 20 minutes, and the commercials would last twice as long the screen would work perfectly then.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 176 by Bolder-dash, posted 10-16-2010 10:42 AM | | Bolder-dash has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 179 of 296 (587027)
10-16-2010 11:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 161 by jar
10-15-2010 10:00 PM
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Questions regarding eternity
jar writes: I perhaps could imagine some eternity where you get to struggle, face increasingly difficult challenges, with failures and successes, always challenged, made to question, filled with doubt and uncertainty; but even there I would hope there would be extended periods of unconsciousness. The idea of eternal bliss, eternal satisfaction, eternal peace may be great for preteens dreaming of their first love, but not something anyone post adolescent would enjoy. This brings up a few questions.  I can see what you envision, I think. We would be growing as humans in this afterlife abode. We would be challenged so that we could grow and learn. What I don't understand would be the failures...the doubts and uncertainties. Would we not have a better communion and understanding with GOD at this point? Whats the point of learning more about the universe, with the ability to journey farther, deeper, and longer...without the primary goal of Heaven, (aka eternal life version) which is to know and commune with God? Surely you don't expect Her to invisibly sit on the sidelines and cheer Her little created worms ability to grow and explore for no reason other than to know more.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 161 by jar, posted 10-15-2010 10:00 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 181 by jar, posted 10-16-2010 12:09 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 182 by ringo, posted 10-16-2010 12:49 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 180 of 296 (587029)
10-16-2010 11:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 175 by Modulous
10-16-2010 10:38 AM
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Re: Who are you?
Modulous writes: But why should I care about Modulous mk 2500?
Telling you that your afterlife will be "so much better" seems like a good way to lower your self-esteem. You can't hope to accomplish in this short, drab life what you can accomplish in a shiny new, eternal afterlife. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's also a form of abuse.
"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 175 by Modulous, posted 10-16-2010 10:38 AM | | Modulous has seen this message but not replied |
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