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Author Topic:   Eternal Life (thanks, but no thanks)
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 181 of 296 (587031)
10-16-2010 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Phat
10-16-2010 11:43 AM


Re: Questions regarding eternity
Phat writes:
What I don't understand would be the failures...the doubts and uncertainties.
Those are part of learning. They are essential parts of success, enjoyment, expansion.
Phat writes:
Would we not have a better communion and understanding with GOD at this point? Whats the point of learning more about the universe, with the ability to journey farther, deeper, and longer...without the primary goal of Heaven, (aka eternal life version) which is to know and commune with God?
See, that makes little sense. It is more like being part of some 'posse', some cortege.
Phat writes:
Surely you don't expect Her to invisibly sit on the sidelines and cheer Her little created worms ability to grow and explore for no reason other than to know more.
Surely you don't expect GOD to entertain you, become your court jester, your fool?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Phat, posted 10-16-2010 11:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 182 of 296 (587035)
10-16-2010 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Phat
10-16-2010 11:43 AM


Re: Questions regarding eternity
Phat writes:
Whats the point of learning more about the universe, with the ability to journey farther, deeper, and longer...without the primary goal of Heaven, (aka eternal life version) which is to know and commune with God?
I like to go down to the lake and commune with the ducks. They're funny. They're all-terrain.
They're in heaven right now. They do what they want to do.
I probably learn more about them than they do about me. I doubt that they're interested in communing with me.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Phat, posted 10-16-2010 11:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Coyote, posted 10-16-2010 1:28 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 183 of 296 (587037)
10-16-2010 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by ringo
10-16-2010 12:49 PM


Re: Questions regarding eternity
Lo, the poor Indian! whose untutor'd mind
Sees God in clouds, or hears him in the wind;
His soul proud Science never taught to stray
Far as the solar walk or milky way;
Yet simple nature to his hope has giv'n,
Behind the cloud-topt hill, an humbler Heav'n,
Some safer world in depth of woods embraced,
Some happier island in the wat'ry waste,
Where slaves once more their native land behold,
No fiends torment, no Christians thirst for gold.
To be, contents his natural desire;
He asks no Angel's wing, no Seraph's fire;
But thinks, admitted to that equal sky,
His faithful dog shall bear him company.
From Alexander Pope's Essay on Man

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 10-16-2010 12:49 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 184 of 296 (587038)
10-16-2010 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Modulous
10-16-2010 8:13 AM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven Good; Biblical Alternative Bad
Modulous writes:
Buzsaw writes:
Modulous, I've stated the above and cited the scripture above to say that there is every reason to aspire to attain Heaven and no logical reason to subject one's self to the alternative who refuse it.
Sure - if you're going to say the choices are 'Ecstasy or torture' it's a simple choice. But that isn't what I'm asking about. I'm asking - regardless of how I'm to spend eternal life, given the objections raised - why should I look forward to it?
Should one loath streets of gold, sunless and unceasing light energetic life needless of rest, never ending blissful life in a perfect environment with delicious life sustaining food without work, having authority over cities, no wars or bloodshed, mansions to dwell in and all of the ammenities not mentioned?
I can understand not wanting eternal life in torment, but would you really loathe eternal life in peaceful and joyful bliss and plenty of good things to eat and do in a perfect world of kingdoms?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Modulous, posted 10-16-2010 8:13 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by jar, posted 10-16-2010 3:12 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 186 by Granny Magda, posted 10-16-2010 3:20 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 187 by frako, posted 10-16-2010 3:23 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 193 by Modulous, posted 10-16-2010 3:47 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 198 by hooah212002, posted 10-16-2010 4:54 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 185 of 296 (587041)
10-16-2010 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Buzsaw
10-16-2010 2:59 PM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven Good; Biblical Alternative Bad
Buz writes:
Should one loath streets of gold, sunless and unceasing light energetic life needless of rest, never ending blissful life in a perfect environment with delicious life sustaining food without work, having authority over cities, no wars or bloodshed, mansions to dwell in and all of the ammenities not mentioned?
Hell yes. That definitely sounds like the wet dreams of an juvenile.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 2:59 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 3:24 PM jar has replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 186 of 296 (587042)
10-16-2010 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Buzsaw
10-16-2010 2:59 PM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven Good; Biblical Alternative Bad
Hi Buz,
Should one loath streets of gold,
Yup. Tacky. In very poor taste. Also a trifle camp.
sunless and unceasing light
I'm a night owl.
energetic life needless of rest,
But I like rest. I like to get all tired and then have a nice rest. Boundless energy is the last thing I want. It would make me antsy.
never ending blissful life in a perfect environment
To me, an environment cannot be perfect. Imperfection is part of the charm of nature.
delicious life sustaining food without work,
But without work, people go crazy. We need work. It's a vital part of our psychological make-up.
having authority over cities,
What? Why would I want authority over anyone? That's the last thing I'd want.
no wars or bloodshed,
Okay, I'll admit that's pretty good.
mansions to dwell in
I don't want a mansion. Why are you so hung up on material things Buz? Shouldn't heaven be more... I dunno, spiritual or something? Gold, precious gems, mansions... it's all a bit greedy and materialistic and for no good reason; what value can gold have in heaven?
I can understand not wanting eternal life in torment, but would you really loathe eternal life in peaceful and joyful bliss and plenty of good things to eat and do in a perfect world of kingdoms?
The heaven you describe here sounds like eternal torment to me. I'm not just trying to score points here, it really sounds intolerably awful to me. True, it sounds better than the lake of fire, but it still sounds dreadful. The only thing that could make me look forward to that would be the threat of even worse punishment as the only alternative.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 2:59 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 3:41 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 187 of 296 (587043)
10-16-2010 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Buzsaw
10-16-2010 2:59 PM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven Good; Biblical Alternative Bad
I can understand not wanting eternal life in torment, but would you really loathe eternal life in peaceful and joyful bliss and plenty of good things to eat and do in a perfect world of kingdoms?
um first of all the second man would enter such a kingdom, he would pave it over to have a grate parking lot. secondly there is only so much one can do before he gets bored. Say you are a muslim who blows himself up and you get 72 virgins how long would they last you a weak or 2 . or if you read the quoran the right way you get 72 grape wines oh joy, oh joy.
Let us take the best case scenario you get anything you want anytime you want it. How long dose it take for you to get bored, how long dose it take for you to run out of ideas on what you want. We are talking about eternity, that is not 100 years or 1000, or 1000 000 years that is forever. After a few thousand years you would be asking god if he can send you to hell so you can change the scenary a bit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 2:59 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 3:33 PM frako has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 188 of 296 (587044)
10-16-2010 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by jar
10-16-2010 3:12 PM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven Good; Biblical Alternative Bad
jar writes:
Hell yes. That definitely sounds like the wet dreams of an juvenile.
The same Biblical record which you espouse as reliable when it alleges a man was raised from the dead is the record that alleges what I've cited to be true.
Aren't you being inconsistent in picking and choosing which miracles to espouse relating to the same man, Jesus?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by jar, posted 10-16-2010 3:12 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by jar, posted 10-16-2010 3:34 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 189 of 296 (587046)
10-16-2010 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by frako
10-16-2010 3:23 PM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven Good; Biblical Alternative Bad
you don't necessarily get what you want. You get what is alloted to you in the chain of command.
The variety of things to do are not given.
Peace and perfection in a world of kingdoms has no connotation of boredom.
To think of asking for eternal torment makes no sense whatsoever.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by frako, posted 10-16-2010 3:23 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by frako, posted 10-16-2010 4:49 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 190 of 296 (587047)
10-16-2010 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Buzsaw
10-16-2010 3:24 PM


Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven as described by buz would be hell.
The same Biblical record which you espouse as reliable when it alleges a man was raised from the dead is the record that alleges what I've cited to be true.
Aren't you being inconsistent in picking and choosing which miracles to espouse relating to the same man, Jesus?
The Bible is filled with fantasy and even poetic passages. What you describe might be fine as I mention, as some preteens fantasy wet dream, but it would be absolute hell as well as absurd in reality.
The problem is when folk take passages from the Bible that are fantasy or poetry or folktale or fable or parody and think they represent reality.
What you describe would not be a miracle, it would be a travesty, the creation of some very very immature goddlet if it were real.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 3:24 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 3:45 PM jar has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 191 of 296 (587048)
10-16-2010 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Granny Magda
10-16-2010 3:20 PM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven Good; Biblical Alternative Bad
Granny, who would want rest in an existence where rest would be boring, undesirable and serve no purpose.
Your response is one from the perspective of this temporal traumatic and world rife with strife, death, suffering and discontent.
You're not making a lot of sense.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Granny Magda, posted 10-16-2010 3:20 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Granny Magda, posted 10-16-2010 3:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 196 by ringo, posted 10-16-2010 4:39 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 192 of 296 (587049)
10-16-2010 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by jar
10-16-2010 3:34 PM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven as described by buz would be hell.
jar writes:
The problem is when folk take passages from the Bible that are fantasy or poetry or folktale or fable or parody and think they represent reality.
How do you pick and choose the resurrection of Jesus from what it says about his lordship after the resurrection. Why, in your view, is the resurrection of Jesus fact and his alleged future life fiction?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by jar, posted 10-16-2010 3:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by jar, posted 10-16-2010 3:53 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 193 of 296 (587050)
10-16-2010 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Buzsaw
10-16-2010 2:59 PM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven Good; Biblical Alternative Bad
I can understand not wanting eternal life in torment, but would you really loathe eternal life in peaceful and joyful bliss and plenty of good things to eat and do in a perfect world of kingdoms?
It's not just about loathing it. I would obviously not loathe it if I was 'living' it. But existence is more than hollow and pointless gratification to me, and I don't want it if that's all it amounts to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 2:59 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 5:50 PM Modulous has replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 194 of 296 (587051)
10-16-2010 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Buzsaw
10-16-2010 3:41 PM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven Good; Biblical Alternative Bad
Granny, who would want rest in an existence where rest would be boring, undesirable and serve no purpose
Well me apparently. Who would want a golden pavement?
Your response is one from the perspective of this temporal traumatic and world rife with strife, death, suffering and discontent.
But that's the point this thread is all about; the perspective of a worldly mortal is the only one available to us. From that perspective, the heaven you describe sounds miserable. It makes heaven pretty hard to look forward to, especially if you're insisting that the (crazed) description in Revelation is accurate.
Sure, you can posit that I would somehow enjoy all that stuff in the afterlife, but then, I would no longer be me and we're back to square one.
You're not making a lot of sense.
You're the one trying to push this "heaven" place as being so desirable. It sounds hellish, and;
Buzsaw writes:
To think of asking for eternal torment makes no sense whatsoever.
Mutate and Survive
PS; Would I be able to get the latest comic books in heaven? Because if I have to miss the last issue of Daredevil: Shadowland, that's a deal breaker.
Edited by Granny Magda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 3:41 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 195 of 296 (587052)
10-16-2010 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Buzsaw
10-16-2010 3:45 PM


Re: Eternal Life In The Biblical Heaven as described by buz would be hell.
Buz writes:
How do you pick and choose the resurrection of Jesus from what it says about his lordship after the resurrection. Why, in your view, is the resurrection of Jesus fact and his alleged future life fiction?
I look at what is actually written. Is the story written as poetry, fiction, propaganda, imagery, song? Then, in the case of what you describe as Heaven, I look to see if even if true, would it be something I'd want.
What you describe, even if true, would be really boring.
I find it hard to believe that any real god could think what you describe would not be unbearable.
And of coursed, I have never claimed that Jesus resurrection is fact.
Edited by jar, : fix syntax

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Buzsaw, posted 10-16-2010 3:45 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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