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Author | Topic: Eternal Life (thanks, but no thanks) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Phat writes: What I don't understand would be the failures...the doubts and uncertainties. Those are part of learning. They are essential parts of success, enjoyment, expansion.
Phat writes: Would we not have a better communion and understanding with GOD at this point? Whats the point of learning more about the universe, with the ability to journey farther, deeper, and longer...without the primary goal of Heaven, (aka eternal life version) which is to know and commune with God? See, that makes little sense. It is more like being part of some 'posse', some cortege.
Phat writes: Surely you don't expect Her to invisibly sit on the sidelines and cheer Her little created worms ability to grow and explore for no reason other than to know more. Surely you don't expect GOD to entertain you, become your court jester, your fool? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I like to go down to the lake and commune with the ducks. They're funny. They're all-terrain. Whats the point of learning more about the universe, with the ability to journey farther, deeper, and longer...without the primary goal of Heaven, (aka eternal life version) which is to know and commune with God? They're in heaven right now. They do what they want to do. I probably learn more about them than they do about me. I doubt that they're interested in communing with me. "It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2127 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Lo, the poor Indian! whose untutor'd mind
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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Modulous writes: Buzsaw writes: Modulous, I've stated the above and cited the scripture above to say that there is every reason to aspire to attain Heaven and no logical reason to subject one's self to the alternative who refuse it. Sure - if you're going to say the choices are 'Ecstasy or torture' it's a simple choice. But that isn't what I'm asking about. I'm asking - regardless of how I'm to spend eternal life, given the objections raised - why should I look forward to it? Should one loath streets of gold, sunless and unceasing light energetic life needless of rest, never ending blissful life in a perfect environment with delicious life sustaining food without work, having authority over cities, no wars or bloodshed, mansions to dwell in and all of the ammenities not mentioned? I can understand not wanting eternal life in torment, but would you really loathe eternal life in peaceful and joyful bliss and plenty of good things to eat and do in a perfect world of kingdoms? BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Buz writes: Should one loath streets of gold, sunless and unceasing light energetic life needless of rest, never ending blissful life in a perfect environment with delicious life sustaining food without work, having authority over cities, no wars or bloodshed, mansions to dwell in and all of the ammenities not mentioned? Hell yes. That definitely sounds like the wet dreams of an juvenile. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Hi Buz,
Should one loath streets of gold, Yup. Tacky. In very poor taste. Also a trifle camp.
sunless and unceasing light I'm a night owl.
energetic life needless of rest, But I like rest. I like to get all tired and then have a nice rest. Boundless energy is the last thing I want. It would make me antsy.
never ending blissful life in a perfect environment To me, an environment cannot be perfect. Imperfection is part of the charm of nature.
delicious life sustaining food without work, But without work, people go crazy. We need work. It's a vital part of our psychological make-up.
having authority over cities, What? Why would I want authority over anyone? That's the last thing I'd want.
no wars or bloodshed, Okay, I'll admit that's pretty good.
mansions to dwell in I don't want a mansion. Why are you so hung up on material things Buz? Shouldn't heaven be more... I dunno, spiritual or something? Gold, precious gems, mansions... it's all a bit greedy and materialistic and for no good reason; what value can gold have in heaven?
I can understand not wanting eternal life in torment, but would you really loathe eternal life in peaceful and joyful bliss and plenty of good things to eat and do in a perfect world of kingdoms? The heaven you describe here sounds like eternal torment to me. I'm not just trying to score points here, it really sounds intolerably awful to me. True, it sounds better than the lake of fire, but it still sounds dreadful. The only thing that could make me look forward to that would be the threat of even worse punishment as the only alternative. Mutate and Survive
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frako Member (Idle past 327 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
I can understand not wanting eternal life in torment, but would you really loathe eternal life in peaceful and joyful bliss and plenty of good things to eat and do in a perfect world of kingdoms? um first of all the second man would enter such a kingdom, he would pave it over to have a grate parking lot. secondly there is only so much one can do before he gets bored. Say you are a muslim who blows himself up and you get 72 virgins how long would they last you a weak or 2 . or if you read the quoran the right way you get 72 grape wines oh joy, oh joy. Let us take the best case scenario you get anything you want anytime you want it. How long dose it take for you to get bored, how long dose it take for you to run out of ideas on what you want. We are talking about eternity, that is not 100 years or 1000, or 1000 000 years that is forever. After a few thousand years you would be asking god if he can send you to hell so you can change the scenary a bit.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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jar writes: Hell yes. That definitely sounds like the wet dreams of an juvenile. The same Biblical record which you espouse as reliable when it alleges a man was raised from the dead is the record that alleges what I've cited to be true. Aren't you being inconsistent in picking and choosing which miracles to espouse relating to the same man, Jesus? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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you don't necessarily get what you want. You get what is alloted to you in the chain of command.
The variety of things to do are not given. Peace and perfection in a world of kingdoms has no connotation of boredom. To think of asking for eternal torment makes no sense whatsoever. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The same Biblical record which you espouse as reliable when it alleges a man was raised from the dead is the record that alleges what I've cited to be true. Aren't you being inconsistent in picking and choosing which miracles to espouse relating to the same man, Jesus? The Bible is filled with fantasy and even poetic passages. What you describe might be fine as I mention, as some preteens fantasy wet dream, but it would be absolute hell as well as absurd in reality. The problem is when folk take passages from the Bible that are fantasy or poetry or folktale or fable or parody and think they represent reality. What you describe would not be a miracle, it would be a travesty, the creation of some very very immature goddlet if it were real. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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Granny, who would want rest in an existence where rest would be boring, undesirable and serve no purpose.
Your response is one from the perspective of this temporal traumatic and world rife with strife, death, suffering and discontent. You're not making a lot of sense. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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jar writes: The problem is when folk take passages from the Bible that are fantasy or poetry or folktale or fable or parody and think they represent reality. How do you pick and choose the resurrection of Jesus from what it says about his lordship after the resurrection. Why, in your view, is the resurrection of Jesus fact and his alleged future life fiction? BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I can understand not wanting eternal life in torment, but would you really loathe eternal life in peaceful and joyful bliss and plenty of good things to eat and do in a perfect world of kingdoms? It's not just about loathing it. I would obviously not loathe it if I was 'living' it. But existence is more than hollow and pointless gratification to me, and I don't want it if that's all it amounts to.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Granny, who would want rest in an existence where rest would be boring, undesirable and serve no purpose Well me apparently. Who would want a golden pavement?
Your response is one from the perspective of this temporal traumatic and world rife with strife, death, suffering and discontent. But that's the point this thread is all about; the perspective of a worldly mortal is the only one available to us. From that perspective, the heaven you describe sounds miserable. It makes heaven pretty hard to look forward to, especially if you're insisting that the (crazed) description in Revelation is accurate. Sure, you can posit that I would somehow enjoy all that stuff in the afterlife, but then, I would no longer be me and we're back to square one.
You're not making a lot of sense. You're the one trying to push this "heaven" place as being so desirable. It sounds hellish, and;
Buzsaw writes: To think of asking for eternal torment makes no sense whatsoever. Mutate and Survive PS; Would I be able to get the latest comic books in heaven? Because if I have to miss the last issue of Daredevil: Shadowland, that's a deal breaker. Edited by Granny Magda, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Buz writes: How do you pick and choose the resurrection of Jesus from what it says about his lordship after the resurrection. Why, in your view, is the resurrection of Jesus fact and his alleged future life fiction? I look at what is actually written. Is the story written as poetry, fiction, propaganda, imagery, song? Then, in the case of what you describe as Heaven, I look to see if even if true, would it be something I'd want. What you describe, even if true, would be really boring. I find it hard to believe that any real god could think what you describe would not be unbearable. And of coursed, I have never claimed that Jesus resurrection is fact. Edited by jar, : fix syntax Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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