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Author | Topic: Who is really in charge of inspiration? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nij Member (Idle past 4890 days) Posts: 239 From: New Zealand Joined: |
Hey dickwit, if you paid attention, I specifically asked in the original post that this be about methods and facts that demonstrate the inspiration for any and all holy texts to be who they say they are.
Not a place for him to trot out the same stuff he's apparently been trying for literally years wherever he had the chance. Even in the case that his viewpoint was relevant, I cleanly disembowelled his position that his book alone contained fulfilled prophecy and that his cult alone could use this as verification of their inspitration's divinity. If he wants to expound his views after being so easily dismissed, there are ways for him to do so, e.g. by starting a thread (AFAIK some already do exist). If you don't like my lack of subtlety in stating the above facts and wanting a straight answer to the straight question I asked, then you may as well get lost yourself.I notice you rather entirely ignored the point which was directed specifically at you in that message. On topic. Please. Once again:
How do you tell who really inspired that scripture?
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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Nij writes: ........if you paid attention, I specifically asked in the original post that this be about methods and facts that demonstrate the inspiration for any and all holy texts to be who they say they are.Not a place for him to trot out the same stuff he's apparently been trying for literally years wherever he had the chance. Even in the case that his viewpoint was relevant, I cleanly disembowelled his position that his book alone contained fulfilled prophecy and that his cult alone could use this as verification of their inspitration's divinity. If he wants to expound his views after being so easily dismissed, there are ways for him to do so, e.g. by starting a thread (AFAIK some already do exist). If you don't like my lack of subtlety in stating the above facts and wanting a straight answer to the straight question I asked, then you may as well get lost yourself.I notice you rather entirely ignored the point which was directed specifically at you in that message. Nij, be reminded the specific question you emboldingly highlighted in this thread OP:
Nij writes: The question is this: how do the faithful know that their holy text is truly divine in origin, and not just the best trick ever devised by some evil god, demigod or other superbeing;how do you tell who really inspired that scripture? I directly and succinctly answered your question as to why I espouse the Biblical record to be holy text, divine in origin and not just the best trick ever devised by some evil god, etc. Whether or not you choose to reject my reason, nevertheless it is dead on and relevant to topic airing my answer to your question directly. I will not be bullied out of this thread because of your secularistic ideological mindset. If you can't stand the heat, don't start the fire. This is a debate board, not a host/hostess elegantly arranged tea party of like minded guests. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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jaywill writes: This may be a thread you started but if you want contributors to "go away" because you don't want to consider their evidence, then you don't want to talk to me either. Thanks Jaywill. Hang in here for the Biblical record. This thread ain't over until the fat lady sings, as the saying goes relative to the fat lady, Kate Smith, who sang (abe: God Bless America)at the end of major sports events back in the 1940,50s. Edited by Buzsaw, : as noted in context BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Buz writes: This thread ain't over until the fat lady sings, as the saying goes relative to the fat lady, Kate Smith, who sang at the end of sports events back in the 1940,50s. Actually, no. It referred humorously to many of the rather large women that were opera sopranos, particularly Wagnerian operas. And another example of how things get reworked. So far no one has offered any support that there is any inspiration other than man, later authors borrow and take passages from earlier authors and use them out of context as "proof texts". A god example was jaywill claiming that Joel was speaking of Jesus in the context of Matthew 25 by pointing to what the author of Revelation took out of context from Joel to point to what the Revelation author thought would happen over 1500 years ago. Human inspiration all the way down to the Turtles. Hopefully though you will have some evidence that supports your position. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Nij Member (Idle past 4890 days) Posts: 239 From: New Zealand Joined: |
Very well then Buz, I'll indulge your incessant desire to push prophecy at people and claim it as fulfilled.
Let's assume for the sake of argument that these prophecies are fulfilled and valid.That still does not provide any evidence whatsoever to determine the person or entity that inspired those prophecies to be the god you worship. How do you know it is your god that really wrote those prophecies, and not Satan or the Devil or Loki or Basement Cat?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 285 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Bottom line: Evidence of supernatural inspiration. But the mere claim that it was supernaturally inspired does not answer the suggestion that it was "the best trick ever devised by some evil god, demigod or other superbeing". Even if we allow your claim that it was supernatural, why can't it be a trick by a supernatural being not particularly well disposed to us? The witches in Macbeth make prophecies (and clear unambiguous ones, at that) but even after unmistakable fulfillment of their prophecies Macbeth never thinks that they're God talking to him.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1942 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
The ancient challenge:
" Did God really say, You shall not eat of any tree of the garden ?" (Genesis 3:1) The modern day version of the same challenge:
"But how you KNOW that that Bible was not a trick of the Devil? Did God really inpsire the Bible ?" There's nothing much new under the sun. Get them to doubt God's word. Get them to question God's heart.
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Except of course, in Genesis 3 it is the Serpent that tells the truth.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
NIV writes: John 8:44--You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. According to dogma, the serpent was incapable of truth, IF he was in fact Satan.
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
But what does the story say?
quote: and...
quote: Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 802 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
Funny. If you replace "the devil" in that passage with "YHWH", it sounds exactly the same.
He was a murderer from the beginning Who murdered more people in the bible: YHWH or "the devil"? And as jar pointed out, who told the truth in the garden? "What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You're making the same type mistake.
The point is that what we find in the Bible is a mixture of very different stories and with entirely different purposes. Some are meant as laws, others as a tale of the founding of a people, some as poetry, others describing snap shots of how a particular people living in a particular culture at a particular time saw their relationship with God, with their society, with those societies around them and the rest of life. We need to look at it through the eyes and mythos of the people living at that particular time, that particular culture. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 802 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
Ok. But as far as the particular passage in question is concerned, it could very well be construed as "the devil" saying YHWH is a liar and murderer, just juxtaposing the terms so as to lead christians to a false god. Why do we need to worry about the people who were around at the time it references?
I also find it funny how we (well, you all) are trying test the divinity of the bible.....by using bible passages. "What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I also find it funny how we (well, you all) are trying test the divinity of the bible.....by using bible passages. Which might be relevant if I was trying to test the divinity of the Bible. But stop and think. If we were discussing any other story one of the very major issues would be the content of that story. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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