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Author Topic:   YEC kids
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 16 of 50 (50429)
08-13-2003 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by crashfrog
08-13-2003 6:45 PM


No offense taken, Crash. I've been a cranky old fart since I was 23.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 08-13-2003 6:45 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 17 of 50 (50432)
08-13-2003 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by truthlover
08-13-2003 5:43 PM


Good points TL. Makes me look at young Creationists in a different light. I agree about treating everyone with respect, sometimes, however, it's really hard. I'll do my best.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by truthlover, posted 08-13-2003 5:43 PM truthlover has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 18 of 50 (50439)
08-13-2003 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Coragyps
08-13-2003 7:40 PM


No offense taken, Crash. I've been a cranky old fart since I was 23.
Myself I find I'm looking forward to being a cranky old curmudgeon.
The work I do makes me largely a kind of servant; for some reason old people, it seems, have a hard time realizing that I'm not serving them because I was born to the servant class - and therefore worthy of no respect from "real" people - but rather, I'm working as a servant because our economy is moving to a service base.
Everybody, nowadays, does the servant thing. Everybody seems to clue into this - and realize that the pizza guy, the waitress, and night desk guy are just as educated and trained as they probably are - except the old folks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Coragyps, posted 08-13-2003 7:40 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by doctrbill, posted 08-13-2003 11:08 PM crashfrog has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 19 of 50 (50466)
08-13-2003 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by crashfrog
08-13-2003 8:53 PM


Crashfrog:
quote:
Everybody, nowadays, does the servant thing. Everybody seems to clue into this - and realize that the pizza guy, the waitress, and night desk guy are just as educated and trained as they probably are - except the old folks.
I'm a senior citizen by some accounts and yet I can relate. I work almost exclusively for people older than myself. I do in-home care for handicapped persons. Handicapped by advanced years and all that goes with that - strokes, cancers, arthritis, liver disease (drinkers), respiratory disease (smokers), etc. The worst, however, are the few who haven't paid attention to what is going on in the world around them. You know - the Ignorant: people who know it all and have always known it all; - and the Specialists: people who worked the same menial task year in and year out, never learning anything they didn't need to know. Specialists are more tolerable than Ignorants but have very strong opinions based on hearsay only.
Are seniors really the crankiest people in the world? That hasn't been my experience. There have always been people my own age who seemed to make a hobby of being disagreeable. Perhaps "curmudgeons" are more likely to survive hard knocks. Perhaps there are more of them among the old because the nice guys have been decimated by the aforementioned challenges of old age. I don't know. But I agree with (who was it now?) who said,
"I give respect to those who show themselves respectable."
To any here who might feel that age itself warrants the qualities of deference one considers appropriate to one's grandfather, I would ask, How old is Sadam now?
db
[This message has been edited by doctrbill, 08-13-2003]

This message is a reply to:
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MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1393 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 20 of 50 (50607)
08-14-2003 7:11 PM


The Attention Span...thing...
One thing that bothers me about our new crop of teenage crusaders is their extremely limited attention span. I've talked to mosquitoes with more focus than xxdeadmnwalkinxx and Zealot combined.
How ironic that Zealot claims he had bad luck on previous boards. I can see why. In two days, he's made 13 posts to 8 different threads, three of which he started himself. Despite a plethora of thoughtful, patient replies to literally every post he's dribbled out, the Z-man hasn't engaged anyone in anything resembling a dialogue. Karl in particular gave him a respectful point-by-point reply in his "1 piece of evidence to disprove evolution" thread, but Zealot returned the favor with more perfunctory ramblings.
Seems Z-man was too busy resurrecting long-dead threads in order to demonstrate his grasp of evolutionary theory as well as his considerable Christian charity with lines like these:
  • Like putting dogs in the snow and when the hairy dogs survive, you say they must have evolved, more likely the ones best suited for the environment survived ?
  • Personally if 2 gay men want to call themselves married, feel free, I couldn't care less, however to do so with the notion that a Christian God approves of it is mockery of the Christian Faith.
  • If you want to base a society on Evolutionary beliefs, you might want to do some research into why Jeffrey Dahmer felt little about killing his victims.
I fully agree that trying to rake these kids over the coals is totally inappropriate. I just wish we could take them at their word that they're here for discussion, since they don't seem able or willing to engage anyone in a dialogue.
------------------
En la tierra de ciegos, el tuerto es el Rey.

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 21 of 50 (50608)
08-14-2003 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by MrHambre
08-14-2003 7:11 PM


Re: The Attention Span...thing...
I dunno, the Dahmer bit in particular is pretty nasty. Just how vicious do they have to get before raking them over the coals is justified ? Make some allowances, yes, but there have to be limits.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by MrHambre, posted 08-14-2003 7:11 PM MrHambre has not replied

roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 22 of 50 (50629)
08-15-2003 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by MrHambre
08-14-2003 7:11 PM


Re: The Attention Span...thing...
So now we're responsible for cannibalism, huh? Well that's a new one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by MrHambre, posted 08-14-2003 7:11 PM MrHambre has not replied

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4060 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 23 of 50 (50674)
08-15-2003 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by MrHambre
08-13-2003 6:27 PM


Recall that Paul (in Titus) quoted Epimenides's paradox and missed the irony. He told Titus that a Cretan philosopher had said that "All Cretans are liars," so therefore it must be true.
I doubt seriously Paul missed the irony. I suspect he simply decided to ignore it in that one instance to make his own point. People do such things all the time.
Beset by learned folks all over the place asking probing theological questions as well as pointing out errors in his logic
I don't believe this is true, either, but then, neither of us have anything to go on to back that up.
The problem is that the answer to the question is no, He hath not.
The wisdom of the world that Paul speaks of is not technological knowledge. As I look around at the wisdom of the portion of the world I am in, I am not impressed. I don't think many people knew better than Paul how to live life on earth in a manner that brings joy, and it seems obvious to me that they don't know now.
Are we materialists mere cynics busy unweaving the rainbow? Or are we paying nature the respect it deserves by taking it on its own terms?
Being anti-nature is a very modern attitude. Even the later churches were very pro learning from nature, not anti- like today. Only since the Catholic church got to hold governmental power did the church ever oppose learning from nature. Attributing such an attitude to Paul in very anachronistic, especially from a guy who said, "The heavens declare God's glory, and the firmament shows his handiwork." His science may not have been very good, but he certainly wasn't against learning from nature.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by MrHambre, posted 08-13-2003 6:27 PM MrHambre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by MrHambre, posted 08-15-2003 4:15 PM truthlover has replied

MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1393 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 24 of 50 (50675)
08-15-2003 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by truthlover
08-15-2003 3:28 PM


Truthlover,
I'm no Biblical scholar. But if anyone cares to read the first chapter of Titus, they can decide for themselves whether Paul tripped over or skipped over the irony.
As for your denial that Paul was sick of being shown up by more learned folks, in first Corinthians he mentions the fact that the Jews seek signs and the Greeks want wisdom. That's when he throws his hands up and declares that the wisdom of the world is folly to the Lord.
The attitude is prevalent among the young young-earthers here.
------------------
En la tierra de ciegos, el tuerto es el Rey.
[This message has been edited by MrHambre, 08-15-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by truthlover, posted 08-15-2003 3:28 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by truthlover, posted 08-16-2003 7:59 PM MrHambre has not replied

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4060 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 25 of 50 (50739)
08-16-2003 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by MrHambre
08-15-2003 4:15 PM


As for your denial that Paul was sick of being shown up by more learned folks, in first Corinthians he mentions the fact that the Jews seek signs and the Greeks want wisdom. That's when he throws his hands up and declares that the wisdom of the world is folly to the Lord.
I don't think it follows that he was losing arguments to the Greeks from this. Maybe yes, maybe no, but nothing to safely assume that.
The attitude is prevalent among the young young-earthers here.
I don't think Paul seems like the young-earthers at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by MrHambre, posted 08-15-2003 4:15 PM MrHambre has not replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 50 (50930)
08-18-2003 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Quetzal
08-13-2003 3:25 AM


Re: i know stuff
"Hey TC, welcome back. It's been awhile.
I seem to remember you started out here in a somewhat similar if less strident vein, but got way better over time. It might be worthwhile for you to clue in some of the new folks (like prophecyexclaimed, etc) on the best way to interact on these fora. Especially coming from a young YEC like themselves, with god-like Moderator powers no less, you might be a good role model for them to emulate.
"
--I will have to check out some of the other threads and see if there is anything I could contribute in this regard.
"Of course, I'd prefer it if they weren't quite so stubborn as you are... "
--Hm.. I guess I have grown a bit stubborn over my time on the board. Although, I don't think it is as extreme a situation as many might believe on evcforum. I think my apparent stubbornness is due to my increasing knowledge in some areas. Sure I don't know as much as many scientists, though the more my knowledge increases, the more I try to give answers and the less I ask questions(at least in the forum). I have come to a point where I don't have to take advantage of the knowledge of evcforum participants (and is even much more beneficial) because I generally know where to look for an answer, and so I find myself in the books much more frequently. Hence my periodic absences in recent months. I may be smarter than the average bear, but essentially I'm still at the bottom of everest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Quetzal, posted 08-13-2003 3:25 AM Quetzal has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 27 of 50 (58865)
09-30-2003 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by crashfrog
08-13-2003 6:45 PM


quote:
Seniors by and large that I run into are inflexible, set in their ways, unable to embrace change, can't absorb modern skills, and most dammingly - show a blatant lack of respect for anyone younger than themselves. Especially to anyone working a service job. (I work night desk at a hotel and the worst, rudest customers are always over 50.)
Basically I guess I'm saying that I'd have a lot more respect for the elderly if most of them weren't so arrogant.
...and RUDE! I find that, in my job as a retail service provider, the most polite people are those in their teens, twenties and thirties.
The worst people for me to deal with in my job are men, 40-60.
What I sell are specialty food products, and I know a lot about them.
I look like I could still be in college even though I'm 35, and our uniform at work is a company t-shirt and jeans. I am also a woman.
So, sometimes I get treated not as the highly-trained and very knowlegeable food expert that I am. Instead, it's common for men in that age group to interrupt frequently when I am explaining something, or otherwise not take me seriously. Or, they sometimes seem to have a hard time putting themselves in the hands of someone they view as below them in status or importance.
After I speak to them for a few minutes about olive oil (or whatever), things often change a little, as they then realize that I don't speak like a kid but as a professional.
I did have a man actually tweak my nose once when I was attempting to get him to use the coffee grinder correctly.
I was not amused.
[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 09-30-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 08-13-2003 6:45 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Percy, posted 10-02-2003 11:43 AM nator has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 28 of 50 (59101)
10-02-2003 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by nator
09-30-2003 9:49 PM


schrafinator writes:
I did have a man actually tweak my nose once when I was attempting to get him to use the coffee grinder correctly.
What did he say when he regained consciousness? And what was his response to the lecture on proper light switch usage?
The worst people for me to deal with in my job are men, 40-60.
Guilty! You're so cute when your dander's up!
You were replying, in part, to this from Crashfrog:
crashfrog writes:
Especially to anyone working a service job. (I work night desk at a hotel and the worst, rudest customers are always over 50.)
In our defense, older people don't travel well. We're just not as portable as we used to be. And we have an early bedtime - we get grumpy when we get tired. Travel combined with a late hour in an older person is a lethal mixture. Crashfrog's job brings him in contact with older people at their worst.
My complaint about younger people (teenager or thereabouts) in service jobs is that they're idiots. Does this need explaining?
--Percy
[Edit was nothing major, just added another completely unprovoked tweak at Schraf. ]
[This message has been edited by Percipient, 10-02-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by nator, posted 09-30-2003 9:49 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Dan Carroll, posted 10-02-2003 11:57 AM Percy has not replied
 Message 30 by Quetzal, posted 10-02-2003 12:10 PM Percy has replied
 Message 34 by nator, posted 10-03-2003 11:18 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 10-04-2003 6:35 PM Percy has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 50 (59106)
10-02-2003 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Percy
10-02-2003 11:43 AM


quote:
My complaint about younger people (teenager or thereabouts) in service jobs is that they're idiots. Does this need explaining?
The wonderful thing about retail and service jobs is that, no matter what, the person on one side of the counter is convinced that the person on the other side is the stupidest person in the history of all mankind. And vice versa.
I worked at Starbucks right after college, and I swear to God people must have checked their brains at the door before ordering. (My favorite customer complaint... a common one... was, "Excuse me... can I get a new cappuccino? This one you gave me is half foam.") We behind the counter were the gentle, enlightened sages who were far superior to the coffee-swilling morons who came in day by day.
Now, a few years later, when I find myself a patron of Starbucks, I'm convinced that Starbucks clerks are the stupidest people in the history of all mankind. They must check their freakin' brains at the door before putting on their aprons.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Percy, posted 10-02-2003 11:43 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Zhimbo, posted 10-02-2003 1:16 PM Dan Carroll has replied
 Message 35 by nator, posted 10-03-2003 11:27 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 30 of 50 (59109)
10-02-2003 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Percy
10-02-2003 11:43 AM


In our defense, older people don't travel well. We're just not as portable as we used to be. And we have an early bedtime - we get grumpy when we get tired. Travel combined with a late hour in an older person is a lethal mixture. Crashfrog's job brings him in contact with older people at their worst.
Speak for yourself. Some of us old farts have been grumpy old men since we were teenagers. I travel a lot (mostly international, which is even worse), and haven't noticed being any more grumpy afterwards than beforehand. OTOH, I can't imagine anyone who isn't already on the list for a rest home for the terminally stupid - of any age - who would tweak ANY salesperson's nose in a store. No matter how cute the salesperson might be. That's taking condescension to pathological extremes, IMO.
My only irritation with the "younger set" comes from dealing with a certain subspecies of that ilk. Percy, I'm sure you know the type: the salesclerk in the computer store or wherever who treats a certain age group (like, anyone over 30) as being already senile and ready for assisted living. I usually lose my temper and say something along the lines of "A) it's not the years, it's the mileage, Junior. And B) I already know more about this sh*t than you in your dead-end, minimum-wage job will ever learn. Now show me the two pieces of hardware I asked for or get someone who can." For some reason, I never get any discounts in those places...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Percy, posted 10-02-2003 11:43 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
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