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Author Topic:   Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
frako
Member (Idle past 418 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 46 of 105 (589243)
11-01-2010 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Theodoric
10-30-2010 6:07 PM


Re: Golden Age of biblical principles?
Oh please tell us when the golden age of biblical principles was. When did the calamitous decline start?
right after they stopped killing the infidels, or maybe when they burned the last witch around 1800-1900
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AdminPD
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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 47 of 105 (589246)
11-01-2010 6:52 AM


Topic Please
I'm greatly disappointed. Out of 46 posts only 4 provided information from the Bible considered to be wise or inspirational. (Message 4, Message 7, Message 24, Message 38) The disagreements popping up don't even deal with whether these verses provide wisdom or inspiration.
This thread is a chance for Christians to provide verses, stories, or chapters from the Bible that they feel provide wisdom and inspiration for today.
This is a chance for Christians to explain why they feel the verses they provided contain wisdom and/or inspiration for today.
This isn't about prophecy or when the canon was finished or whether Christians display more wisdom than non-Christians.
Please stop the useless one-liners. The next one to do so in this thread will be suspended for 24 hours no matter when I catch it.
Please direct any comments concerning this Administrative msg to the Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0 thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour suspension.
Thank you
AdminPD ***
Edited by AdminPD, : Replaced: "This thread will be closed until after lunch to allow participants to reevaluate their approach to this thread and adjust accordingly." with standard warning.

Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1507 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 48 of 105 (589393)
11-02-2010 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
10-30-2010 11:25 AM


Re: There is little unique in the Bible
Exactly so. IMHO the Bible has very little original context and the little there is not worthy of admiration.
Earlier religions contained the Golden Rule but the Bible somehow was able to poison even that by putting loving an imaginary deity above all else.
It would prolly be politically correct to applaud the Bible for standing the test of time but then again, so have:
Instructions of Shuruppak (3300 BCE)
Epic of Etana (2600 BCE) and
The Epic of Gilgamesh (~2000BCE)
Basically this atheist has to say that as the Bible is pretty void of any original wisdom and the inspiration is at best alright and at worst horrendous, I cannot appreciate it as anything but an old book.

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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3570 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 49 of 105 (589394)
11-02-2010 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
10-29-2010 1:05 PM


Ancient Wisdom
While the Bible may not contain unique wisdom, it does show us that some lessons continue through the ages.
Sometimes verses also inspire a different wisdom than the author may have intended.
Discipline your son, and he will give you peace; he will bring delight to your soul. (NIV, Proverbs 29:17) - While our style of discipline may change, the need for discipline doesn't. Children need discipline and guidance.
Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it. (Proverbs 22:6) - This doesn't mean the child won't test the limits when they leave home as an adult, but they'll get back on the path as they test what we've taught them. Reminds me to not give up on my child as they adjust to adulthood.
By their fruit you will recognize them. (Matthew 7:16) - IOW, actions speak louder than words. Reminds me to look beyond the "sales pitch."
Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will nt be dependent on anybody. (1 Thessalonians 4:11-12) - This one I condense to "work hard and mind your own business". IOW, don't be a busybody.
This is the wisdom I get from the verses, not necessarily what a clergy will teach.

The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin. --Gospel of Mary

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jaywill
Member (Idle past 2053 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 50 of 105 (589395)
11-02-2010 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
10-30-2010 4:02 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
Vedas, the Eight Fold Path, the writings of Confucius or Mencius, the Tao Te Ching or the Avestan?
Isn't it easy for a person who has not allowed ANY book to be a governing force in his life, to say that they are all the same ?
When I hear some people say that all the religions are the same often what they are saying is that no belief has any enfluence over thier lives. In that regard they are "all the same."
Sure, to such a person Mencius and Jesus and Mohammed and Confucius are all the same. None of them matter to him.
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Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 10-30-2010 4:02 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 51 of 105 (589397)
11-02-2010 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
10-29-2010 1:05 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
jar writes:
For information on behavior and morality, the Eastern writers and the Western Philosophers are likely better sources. Most of the Bible deals not with behavior or morality but rather with the mythos of creating a Hebrew identity and then later, the creation of a Christian identity.
What is a Christian identity? For starters, I, as a Christian, dislike being identified with Christians. Granted there are all sorts of them...you (jar) being a unique variety. Politically, many of the Christians in the U.S. are ignorant. They are often told whom to vote for and what issues to support versus the issues that they must vote against.
Straggler, as for me personally, I have not really read the Bible from cover to cover, nor do I intend to do so, since much of it is irrelevant to my life in this modern era. Perhaps I should be more educated on comparative philosophies and religions, but I feel that as I live my life and try to communicate with others, my beliefs are being defined by my actions and reactions. By my behavior. God knows my intentions! Perhaps the challenge for me is that I too know them, before I die at any rate.
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 105 (589398)
11-02-2010 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by jaywill
11-02-2010 7:29 AM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
When I hear some people say that all the religions are the same often what they are saying is that no belief has any enfluence over thier lives. In that regard they are "all the same."
Logically all things cannot be the same and remain coherent because they diametrically contradict one another.
But taking certain passages and applying the wisdom in them, I think, is what he is referring to.
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AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9361
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 53 of 105 (589399)
11-02-2010 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by jaywill
11-02-2010 7:29 AM


Jar is a christian
Isn't it easy for a person who has not allowed ANY book to be a governing force in his life, to say that they are all the same ?
As I understand, Jar is a Christian.
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AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 2053 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 54 of 105 (589403)
11-02-2010 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Theodoric
11-02-2010 8:44 AM


Re: Jar is a christian
As I understand, Jar is a Christian.
And why do you have that understanding ?
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AdminPD
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9361
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 55 of 105 (589406)
11-02-2010 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by jaywill
11-02-2010 10:07 AM


Re: Jar is a christian
And why do you have that understanding ?
He has stated so in very clear terms.
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AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 56 of 105 (589408)
11-02-2010 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by jaywill
11-02-2010 10:07 AM


OFF TOPIC..lets refocus
This is wandering off topic, so I suggest that we take this discussion here.
***************************************************
This topic is:
quote:
My knowledge of the bible is limited and (it has to be admitted) largely shaped by my exposure in opposition to various EvC style debates. To me it has primarily been a reference source rather than a book that I have read for it’s narrative or wisdom or inspiration. So..
Given that I am neither seeking nor likely to be converted, given that I accept the historical importance of the bible to Western civilisation and can appreciate the worth of understanding it in that context - How would those who consider the bible to be a source of wisdom and inspiration suggest that I, as a non-believer, appreciate the more inspirational and timeless wisdom aspects of it?
Are there particular passages that I can be directed to as being of significant timeless wisdom and meaning? Are there particular parts that even a die hard atheist can point to as being inspirational and insightful?
If those with more biblical knowledge than I were to try and pinpoint the parts of the bible that they think stand out as significant regardless of ones belief which parts would they direct me to? And why?
I am not really in a position to dispute people's choices on this so this is more an opportunity for advice and discussion....

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jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 57 of 105 (589426)
11-02-2010 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by jaywill
11-02-2010 7:29 AM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
It might be more honest if you had actually quoted what I said instead of once again taking things out of context.
What I asked (and note, it was a question) was...
jar writes:
How would it make the Bible any more valuable then the Vedas, the Eight Fold Path, the writings of Confucius or Mencius, the Tao Te Ching or the Avestan?
which was a question addressed to Buz who made the assertion that:
quote:
It is unique; a compilation of 66 books, written over a period of some 1500 years from diverse nations by roughly 40 different writers from all walks of life including lowly self educated shepherds, nomadic prophets dwelling in the wilderness, fishermen, highly educated noblemen and majestic kings.
Perhaps you can point out your support for YOUR assertions or even explain how what Buz asserted, even if true, would add some value that is not present in the others?
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AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 105 (589427)
11-02-2010 12:57 PM


James
I still vote for James...
It is an insightful look into Christian rhetoric. Anyone who has familiarized themselves with the Faith v. Works debate will certainly find it an enjoyable piece. One of my favorite lines:
quote:
James 2:19 (NRSV):
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believeand shudder.
Jon
Edited by Jon, : Expanded...

Check out Apollo's Temple!

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 105 (589608)
11-03-2010 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Jon
11-02-2010 12:57 PM


Re: James
Jon writes:
I still vote for James...
It is an insightful look into Christian rhetoric. Anyone who has familiarized themselves with the Faith v. Works debate will certainly find it an enjoyable piece. One of my favorite lines:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James 2:19 (NRSV):
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believeand shudder.
Lol, brother. Though the book of James may inspire wisdom into theists, likely it will do nothing to inspire anything into the mindset of athiests such as Straggler as per the OP.
Objective thiests searching for truth, especially scientific minded ones, however might become wiser and/or inspired by evidence such as verifiable fulfilled prophecy, archeology or history relative to scriptural text.
Over the centuries, athieists, in fact have become wiser and inspired by evidence related to scripture. The apostles themselves and Jesus often used evidence related scripture to inspire conversion into non-believers. An example would be the Athenian Greeks alluded to in the book of Acts and other Gentiles.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Jon, posted 11-02-2010 12:57 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 105 (589706)
11-03-2010 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Buzsaw
11-03-2010 2:20 PM


Re: James
Lol, brother. Though the book of James may inspire wisdom into theists, likely it will do nothing to inspire anything into the mindset of athiests such as Straggler as per the OP.
We each find inspiration and wisdom in our own ways. If Straggler finds anything worth while in any of the selections recommended here, great. If not, that's great too.
Jon

Check out Apollo's Temple!

This message is a reply to:
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