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Author Topic:   Is Evolution the Work of Satan?
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 104 (589360)
11-01-2010 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stephen Push
11-01-2010 5:47 AM


A Matter of Standards...
Or is the natural evil of evolution, contrary to Ayala’s view, a reason to reject the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent God?
Benevolent by whose standards?
Omniscient by whose standards?
Omnipotent by whose standards?
And why is this thread limited to Christians? Certainly theirs is not the only opinion on GOD and the powers of evil.
Jon

Check out Apollo's Temple!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stephen Push, posted 11-01-2010 5:47 AM Stephen Push has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Stephen Push, posted 11-01-2010 10:50 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 104 (589413)
11-02-2010 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Stephen Push
11-01-2010 10:50 PM


Re: A Matter of Standards...
Anyone's standards.
Commonly , for example, 'benevolent' is defined as always doing the right, or good, thing when the situation arises to do so (more in line with the 'omnibenevolence' Coyote mentioned). This, of course, flies against the notion of 'omnipotence', which is the power to do anything and everything. Obviously, any entity that is forced to do good whenever the opportunity arises is far from being 'omnipotent', being subjugated, as it were, to their own 'benevolence'. So, 'benevolence' and 'omnipotence' are clearly out of the question as sensible terms to describe any actual thing that may existincluding gods. 'Omniscience' simply increases such incidents of conflict between these properties as often defined.
So, folk have defined these words in such an exclusive way, and then tacked them on to descriptions of GOD and say: 'HA! You're goddy don't make no sense'. It's just very disingenuous, and not at all a productive discussion technique. The biggest wonder is why the hell so many religious folk let them get away with it... me thinks they haven't figured it out yet.
Your standards, if you like. In your opinion, what standards of benevolence, omniscience, and omnipotence are consistent with a God who allows his sentient creatures to suffer from the natural evil entailed by the evolutionary process?
Given the way these things are defined, there is simply no way such an entity could exist, and even if such an entity did exist, it would be so damn screwed up that it'd hardly be worth calling GOD and worshippingI believe. As to how we could define them to accurately describe GOD, I cannot even begin to guess, but it is certainly not in the way they are commonly defined.
Being less familiar with non-Christian faiths, I don't know whether Jews and Muslims attribute all three of those qualities to God. But if they do, I would be interested in hearing their views on the subject, too.
What about people who do not belong to faith groups?
Jon

Check out Apollo's Temple!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Stephen Push, posted 11-01-2010 10:50 PM Stephen Push has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-02-2010 11:33 AM Jon has replied
 Message 38 by Stephen Push, posted 11-02-2010 9:36 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 104 (589436)
11-02-2010 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Dr Adequate
11-02-2010 11:33 AM


Re: A Matter of Standards...
Jon writes:
Obviously, any entity that is forced to do good whenever the opportunity arises is far from being 'omnipotent', being subjugated, as it were, to their own 'benevolence'.
But benevolence means (literally) the wish to do what is good, not a compulsion to do so.
Obviously the fact that God does what he wishes to do would not be a limitation on his omnipotence as such.
My argument isn't against the use of the word as you describe it, but against the use of the word as I describe it. And I am not interested in debating the 'correctness' of either of these uses. I would, however, be interested in discussing how often the word's actual use is in line with one of these descriptions or the other.
My argument isn't against those who use the word as you've described, but against those who use the word as I've described. And I am not interested in debating who is more 'correct' in their use of the word. I would, however, be interested in discussing whether those using the word in any one of these ways are of the majority.
Jon

Check out Apollo's Temple!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-02-2010 11:33 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 104 (589709)
11-03-2010 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Stephen Push
11-03-2010 1:45 PM


Re: Powerful, Wise & Benevolent God?
jar writes:
HOWEVER, the topic of the thread was about evolution and whether evolution is evil.
No, the topic of the thread is whether the suffering caused by evolution negates the concept of an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent God.
So the title itself was just a faade?
Jon

Check out Apollo's Temple!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Stephen Push, posted 11-03-2010 1:45 PM Stephen Push has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Stephen Push, posted 11-04-2010 12:29 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
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