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Author Topic:   Genuine Puzzles In Biology?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 76 of 153 (590251)
11-07-2010 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Stephen Push
11-07-2010 3:37 AM


Re: Animal Cognition & Consciousness
What about Gallup's mirror test? Don't you think that demonstrates self-awareness in chimpanzees, dolphins, and the other species that have passed the test?
Sure, I have a definitive and empirically justifiable opinion about that, because I am the greatest philosopher who ever lived, and my mighty brain allows me to resolve such questions because I am so fucking smart.
NOW WORSHIP ME AS YOUR GOD.
Seriously, I suppose that animals are conscious because they behave like they're conscious. The same reason I suppose that you are conscious. I might be wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 3:37 AM Stephen Push has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 9:14 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 77 of 153 (590253)
11-07-2010 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Stephen Push
11-07-2010 3:37 AM


Re: Animal Cognition & Consciousness
What about Gallup's mirror test? Don't you think that demonstrates self-awareness in chimpanzees, dolphins, and the other species that have passed the test?
I think that test only demonstrates witch animals have the capacety to realise that the animal they see is only a reflection i doubt it has much to do whit self-awareness and more whit their cognitive functions that descypher their optical imput.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 3:37 AM Stephen Push has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 9:31 AM frako has not replied

Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 78 of 153 (590261)
11-07-2010 8:24 AM


Ophiocordyceps
What is the prevailing theory about how this fungus evolved the characteristic of controlling it's hosts behaviour in such a specific manner?
There are other virus that effect rats in such a way as to increase it's chances of being eaten by a cat. I think there is another that effects fish in such a way that they will be eaten by a bird. Could rabies be said to be doing the same type of thing to it's hosts?
Another question is how does genetic memory or instinct occur? Why am I instinctively afraid of spiders and snakes and heights? I see how being afraid of dangerous things is helpful but how do my genes remember that from previous encounters in other generations?

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 9:45 AM Dogmafood has replied
 Message 82 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 10:03 AM Dogmafood has replied
 Message 91 by frako, posted 11-18-2010 4:47 PM Dogmafood has seen this message but not replied
 Message 92 by Akhlut, posted 12-01-2010 3:02 PM Dogmafood has replied

Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4859 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 79 of 153 (590264)
11-07-2010 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Dr Adequate
11-07-2010 4:45 AM


Re: Animal Cognition & Consciousness
Dr Adequate writes:
The same reason I suppose that you are conscious. I might be wrong.
Thanks. I'd hate to think I failed the Turing test.
Because of your answer, I conclude that you have a theory of mind. But I might be wrong, too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-07-2010 4:45 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4859 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 80 of 153 (590266)
11-07-2010 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by frako
11-07-2010 5:07 AM


Re: Animal Cognition & Consciousness
frako writes:
I think that test only demonstrates witch animals have the capacety to realise that the animal they see is only a reflection i doubt it has much to do whit self-awareness and more whit their cognitive functions that descypher their optical imput.
It demonstrates that the animal knows it is seeing a refection of itself. In chimpanzees, for instance, the chimp will touch its own forehead when it sees a dab of paint on the forehead in the reflection.

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Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4859 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 81 of 153 (590267)
11-07-2010 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Dogmafood
11-07-2010 8:24 AM


Re: Ophiocordyceps
Dogmafood writes:
What is the prevailing theory about how this fungus evolved the characteristic of controlling it's hosts behaviour in such a specific manner?
From a blog called Neurophilosophy:
When the fungus is ready to sporulate, the mycelia grow into the ant’s brain. The fungus then produces chemicals which act on the host’s brain and alter its perception of pheromones. This causes the ant to climb a plant and, upon reaching the top, to clamp its mandibles around a leaf or leaf stem, thus securing it firmly to what will be its final resting place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Dogmafood, posted 11-07-2010 8:24 AM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Dogmafood, posted 11-07-2010 10:10 AM Stephen Push has replied

Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4859 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 82 of 153 (590268)
11-07-2010 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Dogmafood
11-07-2010 8:24 AM


Amygdala & Fear
Dogmafood writes:
Another question is how does genetic memory or instinct occur? Why am I instinctively afraid of spiders and snakes and heights? I see how being afraid of dangerous things is helpful but how do my genes remember that from previous encounters in other generations?
Visual images of snakes and spiders stimulate a brain network centered on the amygdala, which in turn triggers the fear response. Conscious processing (e.g., you realize its a rubber snake, not a real snake) can halt this porcess.
Some fears are learned. But our brains appear to be hardwired to recognize images of snakes and spiders.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Dogmafood, posted 11-07-2010 8:24 AM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 85 by Dogmafood, posted 11-07-2010 10:15 AM Stephen Push has not replied
 Message 94 by Blue Jay, posted 12-02-2010 12:30 PM Stephen Push has replied

Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4859 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 83 of 153 (590269)
11-07-2010 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Stephen Push
11-07-2010 10:03 AM


Rabies
Dogmafood writes:
Could rabies be said to be doing the same type of thing to it's hosts?
That's an interesting idea. Causing an infected animal to run around biting other potential victims would seem like a good way to spread the virus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 10:03 AM Stephen Push has not replied

Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 84 of 153 (590270)
11-07-2010 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Stephen Push
11-07-2010 9:45 AM


Re: Ophiocordyceps
When the fungus is ready to sporulate, the mycelia grow into the ant’s brain. The fungus then produces chemicals which act on the host’s brain and alter its perception of pheromones. This causes the ant to climb a plant and, upon reaching the top, to clamp its mandibles around a leaf or leaf stem, thus securing it firmly to what will be its final resting place.
Yes that describes the characteristic and the mechanism. Perhaps the answer is in the question. It evolved.
It is just that it strikes me as such a fantastic culmination of coincidental events.
Edited by Dogmafood, : add quote

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 9:45 AM Stephen Push has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 11:55 AM Dogmafood has seen this message but not replied

Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 85 of 153 (590271)
11-07-2010 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Stephen Push
11-07-2010 10:03 AM


Re: Amygdala & Fear
Some fears are learned. But our brains appear to be hardwired to recognize images of snakes and spiders.
Yes. That is the question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Stephen Push, posted 11-07-2010 10:03 AM Stephen Push has not replied

Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4859 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 86 of 153 (590287)
11-07-2010 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Dogmafood
11-07-2010 10:10 AM


Re: Ophiocordyceps
Dogmafood writes:
It is just that it strikes me as such a fantastic culmination of coincidental events.
Fascinating, yes. Fantastic, no -- given that this group of fungi have been parasitizing insects for at least 48 million years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Dogmafood, posted 11-07-2010 10:10 AM Dogmafood has seen this message but not replied

BarackZero
Member (Idle past 4854 days)
Posts: 57
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 87 of 153 (592024)
11-18-2010 1:00 AM


Any time someone NOT wholly in the Darwinist camp offers up a puzzle in
biology, he is instantly shot down with one or more of the following pat insults:
1. You don't understand evolution.
2. You don't understand science.
3. Your make-believe book is nothing but a fairy tale.
4. Your ignorance is pathetic. Next.
It's really hateful of Darwinists to act this way, but it's absolutely impossible
for them to do anything else.
But when a Fellow Traveler posits such a question, it's perfectly acceptable
and oh so intellectual.

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-18-2010 1:37 AM BarackZero has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 88 of 153 (592028)
11-18-2010 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by BarackZero
11-18-2010 1:00 AM


Any time someone NOT wholly in the Darwinist camp offers up a puzzle in
biology, he is instantly shot down with one or more of the following pat insults:
1. You don't understand evolution.
2. You don't understand science.
3. Your make-believe book is nothing but a fairy tale.
4. Your ignorance is pathetic. Next.
It's really hateful of Darwinists to act this way, but it's absolutely impossible
for them to do anything else.
But when a Fellow Traveler posits such a question, it's perfectly acceptable
and oh so intellectual.
Your whining is noted. Now, did you have an actual question about biology, or did you merely want to display your capacity for self-pity?
The title of this thread is "Genuine Puzzles In Biology", not "Creationists Blub And Cry About How Unfair It Is That People Exist Who Disagree With Them".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by BarackZero, posted 11-18-2010 1:00 AM BarackZero has not replied

Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 89 of 153 (592050)
11-18-2010 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Stephen Push
11-06-2010 2:00 PM


Please edit the link.
Stephen (or an Admin),
Could you please edit the link so that the page keeps its normal width? (You can hide the details of the link behind a more descriptive text.)
Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Stephen Push, posted 11-06-2010 2:00 PM Stephen Push has replied

Replies to this message:
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Stephen Push
Member (Idle past 4859 days)
Posts: 140
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 90 of 153 (592078)
11-18-2010 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Parasomnium
11-18-2010 2:27 AM


Re: Please edit the link.
I corrected the url. Thanks for pointing that out, Parasomnium.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Parasomnium, posted 11-18-2010 2:27 AM Parasomnium has not replied

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