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Author
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Topic: Mlodinow & Hawking on Model-Dependent Realism
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Re: Straggler can not be silent on matters concerning frogs
hooah212002 writes: This is a discussion/debate board and you made a claim that you no longer wish to discuss. And yet here I am.
hooah212002 writes: Given the nature of this board, your statement raised substantial, warranted ire. The first thing that I thought when I read it was "that's funny, because people of faith sure seem to want to muck about with science" but you want science to leave your faith alone. Surely you can see why it was brought to light...... Muck about with science? There are many people of religious faith who are scientist. But there no scientific fields of study that deal with faith in god. Why is that?
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Message 53 of 72 (591072)
11-11-2010 3:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 50 by Straggler
11-11-2010 2:12 PM
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Re: Faith
Straggler writes: Not at all. Science would say that they are almost certainly wrong in their conclusions and that the faith based foundation of their beliefs is demonstrably unreliable.
Can you show me some reliable scientific evidence that people who believe in a god, or gods are wrong for doing so? That their conclusions based on nothing more than faith are scientifically disproved?
Are you familiar with the topics discussed here at EvC at all.......... yes.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 50 by Straggler, posted 11-11-2010 2:12 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Re: Faith
Stephan Push writes: I think the social sciences would have a lot to say about faith and religion. ok you got me on that one. But I feel it is more of a matter that the research of a social scientist could show from whence these practices came etc.. but not whether or not the individual who believes such things is delusional. It can be shown through a PET scan what regions of the brain light up that produce the feeling of euphoria in religious prayer. But the scan does not show the prayer, nor does it show from whence it is propagated.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by Stephen Push, posted 11-11-2010 3:05 PM | | Stephen Push has not replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Re: Straggler can not be silent on matters concerning frogs
hooah212002 writes: There's this phenomena called "creationism". Perhaps you are familiar with it? Sometimes it is referred to as Intelligent Design. aka psuedo sciences. Why? because real science deals with things that can be verified. You can not verify faith. You can call it bullshit, but that is not science is it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by hooah212002, posted 11-11-2010 3:39 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Message 58 of 72 (591092)
11-11-2010 4:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 57 by bluegenes
11-11-2010 4:04 PM
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And these scientific fields of study have what to say about faith?
How is faith in something like the prophet Mohammad accending into heaven have anything to do with these sciences?
Granted I do not know. I know a psycologist and will ask him if his field of study deals with faith in god. I would assume it also deals with faith in monsters under the bed too.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 57 by bluegenes, posted 11-11-2010 4:04 PM | | bluegenes has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 60 by bluegenes, posted 11-11-2010 4:33 PM | | 1.61803 has replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Re: Straggler can not be silent on matters concerning frogs
But there no scientific fields of study that deal with faith in god. Why is that? Im beginning to regret typing that.... I realize that there are scientific studies that can show how, when and why faith and religion has come to be a part of human behavior. What I am interested in is how a model such as science that is based on falsifiable evidence can have anything to do with something as unfalsifiable as faith based assertions such as the existance of a god. Science can show evidence of the big bang by mapping CBR but that does not disprove someone having faith that a god created the big bang. Science does not care what someone believes. It only cares that it is accurate and verifable and sound in its reproducible results and conclusions. Or not I dont know now. Edited by 1.61803, : redundant
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Message 65 of 72 (591237)
11-12-2010 2:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 60 by bluegenes
11-11-2010 4:33 PM
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Re: No "proofs" please!
I certainly appreciate you thoughtful response.
bluegenes writes: Religion is a real phenomenon, and there is nothing real that science won't or can't study.
This is something that has indeed gave me pause for thought. Proof is a function of math and evidence is a function of science. I believe it was Stephan Gould who was of the opinion that science "cannot yield values and religion doesnt yield emprical truths". I am reexamining my views concerning this. Best regards
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by bluegenes, posted 11-11-2010 4:33 PM | | bluegenes has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 70 by Straggler, posted 11-13-2010 11:26 AM | | 1.61803 has replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Message 66 of 72 (591238)
11-12-2010 2:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 63 by Straggler
11-12-2010 1:30 PM
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Re: Faith
Wah, what a cry baby. I reach for falsification and you throw a temper tantrum. You know I only did it to piss you off. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by Straggler, posted 11-12-2010 1:30 PM | | Straggler has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 69 by Straggler, posted 11-13-2010 11:16 AM | | 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Message 71 of 72 (591463)
11-14-2010 9:37 AM
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Reply to: Message 67 by onifre
11-12-2010 4:21 PM
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Re: Head trauma does not equal "faith"
Interesting article. The PET scan maps the brian, the physiology of the human body operates in accordance to the laws of nature. Yes I get that. Faith and religion are real. And Science will research anything that is real. Bluegenes statement was spot on. I am now in a better understanding of what all of you have been saying. Which is one reason I like this board. Edited by 1.61803, : word article added.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 67 by onifre, posted 11-12-2010 4:21 PM | | onifre has not replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Message 72 of 72 (591467)
11-14-2010 10:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 70 by Straggler
11-13-2010 11:26 AM
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Re: Gould and NOMA
Straggler writes: I wondered when we would get to Gould... I was reading it on the interwebz. I kept finding apologist though.
So if you want to say "science is silent upon moral values" you might have a point. agreed.
A good idea. Because thus far they have been very confused indeed.
Thats for sure.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by Straggler, posted 11-13-2010 11:26 AM | | Straggler has not replied |
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