Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,809 Year: 3,066/9,624 Month: 911/1,588 Week: 94/223 Day: 5/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Global Warming Scam
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 91 of 177 (587636)
10-19-2010 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by DBlevins
10-19-2010 7:44 PM


Re: Warming and CO2
Either you used the wrong words or you thought you were replying to someone else because it appears you are mistaken.....

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by DBlevins, posted 10-19-2010 7:44 PM DBlevins has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by DBlevins, posted 10-21-2010 3:03 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 92 of 177 (587639)
10-19-2010 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by BarackZero
10-08-2010 8:56 AM


Im sure you've been beaten up about this already...
But I love a good dog pile!
anthropogenic carbon dioxide constitutes only 3.4% of the total amount produced.
First of all, if you have a tight rope walker who's using a balance bar and the balance bar weighs 10lbs, adding .3 lbs to one end of that bar and not the other is going to have a very distinct effect.
Assuming your data is correct (and I have my doubts), you are still talking about 3.4% of CO2 which is being added annual above and beyond what the atmosphere can get rid of. That's tipping the scale.
Second of all, does this 3.4% include domesticated animals? Or are we talking just industrial and automotive output? Cows exist in numbers which would be unthinkable without our aid. They produce quite a lot of CO2 and methane. Are they NOT to be considered a man-made source?
Third, does this 3.4% take into account the REMOVAL of CO2 removers from the system? Cutting down rain forest reduces the amount of CO2 which is being removed from the system which increases the effect of what we put in.
So now, we have the tight rope walker with the 1/3 lb weight on one end of his balance bar and a couple helium balloons tied to the other.
Lastly, let's talk about your politics for a second.
What EXACTLY is the problem with reducing green house emissions?
Let's pretend that you are absolutely correct and that human CO2 has little effect on the environment. Further, let's pretend that even if we zero'd out emissions we'd still see a warming trend.
Okay.
So, what's the HARM in zeroing out emissions? What's the HARM in reducing the burning of coal, for example? What's the HARM in increasing free energy from renewable resources?
I hear a lot of people like yourself complaining about the "scam" as though there was some negative effect from reducing pollution and increasing energy independence.
So far the ONLY time I've had someone try and explain the "problem" they were saying that some people were making money off the change. As if there weren't people making money off the current system.
So, spin us a tale. What EXACTLY is the "worst case scenario" from cleaning up our act and cutting back on pollution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by BarackZero, posted 10-08-2010 8:56 AM BarackZero has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by BarackZero, posted 11-18-2010 1:14 AM Nuggin has replied
 Message 106 by BarackZero, posted 12-10-2010 8:09 AM Nuggin has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 93 of 177 (587726)
10-20-2010 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by DBlevins
10-19-2010 7:06 PM


Re: Warming and CO2
Do you recall what happened when the government started listening to the scientists and began to ban or limit the use of CFC's?
That ban had little to no effect on our lifestyles as compared to a ban on fossil fuels. People had to change very, very little about their day to day routine (if it all) in order to stop using CFC's. It is the change in lifestyle that people have an emotional reaction to. They feel like something is being forced on them, even if it is for the good of humanity as a whole.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by DBlevins, posted 10-19-2010 7:06 PM DBlevins has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by DBlevins, posted 10-21-2010 3:06 PM Taq has not replied

  
Species8472
Junior Member (Idle past 4881 days)
Posts: 29
Joined: 01-13-2010


(1)
Message 94 of 177 (587738)
10-20-2010 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by DBlevins
10-19-2010 7:06 PM


Re: Warming and CO2
DBlevins writes
quote:
Do you recall what happened when the government started listening to the scientists and began to ban or limit the use of CFC's?
And indeed there were and still are many ozone hole deniers. In fact, I was talking to one the other day. He was convinced big brother governments banned CFC because it benefited man kind and the Earth and big brother didn't want that.
Unfortunately, global warming is not anything like the CFC issue. It was a fairly smooth transition from CFC to other, less harmful chemicals in the industries. But with global warming everything contributes to it. Burning wood contributes to global warming. Driving to work contributes to global warming. Heating your home contributes to global warming.
In fact, in order to feed this many people in the world today we have to directly contribute to global warming with massing livestocks and huge slaughtering industry. Hell, even farming contributes to global warming.
Sir Arthur C. Clark proposed a solution in one of his monolith novels. He proposed we cover large portions of the planet's surface with material that would deflect the solar energy into space to cool down the Earth. While I'm not saying this is the solution we should seek, I am saying in order to solve global warming (which is the biggest thing that is happening on the planet) literally everyone in the world has to agree to some unified method.
And the only way we can get the whole world to cooperate is to shut out the opposition (global warming deniers), which last time I checked was the majority of the world.
Like some others on here, I am convinced that there is little we can do stop global warming. We are currently at 380 ppm or so. Many believe the point of no return is around 450. But since we're never going to be able to convince the opposition, the point of no return might as well have been 350, which we already passed long ago.
What we (those of us who are sane enough to honestly want a cleaner planet) ought to do now is prepare the world for what's to come. For example, Australia has recently adjusted their entire economic system to deal with the changes. In the 80s, Australia was the biggest exporter of grain. They now have no export at all. Their people have finally realized that the 2 decades long drought they've been having is no drought at all but actually climate change in action. You see, drought ends. If you have a period of decreased precipitation that lasts forever, it's not a drought. It's climate change.
We could petition the government to start allowing more farmland to be used rather than subsidized so farmers wouldn't use them. Our current grain reserve only lasts us about 55 days or so, which I think is a disgrace. Being the richest nation in the world with the most resources readily available, we should worry less about food prices dropping and more about stocking up for emergencies. Even the primitives of the ancient world knew better better than to have only 55 days or so worth of emergency stock of grain. Harvests fail every once in a while, and we need to make sure we have enough reserves not just for ourselves but for as many people outside our country as we can feed.
Actually, I think it is a disgrace that we have evolved into an economic system where we would rather see people starve than see food prices drop. Each year the US government literally pays farmers not to use all their farmlands in order to keep food prices up. As a result, we only have enough grain reserve to last us a couple months. This is a disgrace. This is an outrage. This is a shame.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by DBlevins, posted 10-19-2010 7:06 PM DBlevins has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by DBlevins, posted 10-21-2010 3:13 PM Species8472 has not replied

  
DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3775 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 95 of 177 (587961)
10-21-2010 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by hooah212002
10-19-2010 8:13 PM


Re: Warming and CO2
Sorry, but didn't you say that there were also ozone hole deniers?
I thought I was just commenting on that statement that you made.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by hooah212002, posted 10-19-2010 8:13 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3775 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 96 of 177 (587963)
10-21-2010 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Taq
10-20-2010 12:34 PM


Re: Warming and CO2
Who is talking about banning fossil fuels?
What dramatic change in our lifestyles is going to occur because we recycle or carpool more or use the bus more or use high-speed rail transportaion or increase our use of solar cells and other green technologies?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Taq, posted 10-20-2010 12:34 PM Taq has not replied

  
DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3775 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 97 of 177 (587965)
10-21-2010 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Species8472
10-20-2010 1:29 PM


Re: Warming and CO2
Like some others on here, I am convinced that there is little we can do stop global warming. We are currently at 380 ppm or so. Many believe the point of no return is around 450. But since we're never going to be able to convince the opposition, the point of no return might as well have been 350, which we already passed long ago.
What we (those of us who are sane enough to honestly want a cleaner planet) ought to do now is prepare the world for what's to come. For example, Australia has recently adjusted their entire economic system to deal with the changes. In the 80s, Australia was the biggest exporter of grain. They now have no export at all. Their people have finally realized that the 2 decades long drought they've been having is no drought at all but actually climate change in action. You see, drought ends. If you have a period of decreased precipitation that lasts forever, it's not a drought. It's climate change.
I agree that if the government does not take it seriously, then you will have a significantly lessened impact upon the unwashed masses but that doesn't mean that people can take personal account of their own impacts on the environment and even start grassroots efforts to make some meaningful changes to how we run our day to day lives that don't have to 'drastically' alter our lifestyles. (Ie. After repeated complaints by my household and others in our apartment complex they added a recycling bin to our garbage disposal. I had been using the library to deposit our batteries and traveling to dispose of my plastics and other recyclables so it was nice to see this change just because I can now walk to recycle instead of drive a good distance to dispose of them all)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Species8472, posted 10-20-2010 1:29 PM Species8472 has not replied

  
BarackZero
Member (Idle past 4853 days)
Posts: 57
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 98 of 177 (592026)
11-18-2010 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Dr Adequate
10-11-2010 10:38 AM


Inadequate: To be more accurate, you put those concentrations into a "perspective" that was dumber than a bag of hammers, and many people pointed out your silly mistake.
BarackZero responds:
To be "MORE" accurate you would first have to be ACCURATE.
You have not been. You resort to nothing but generalities and insults.
Shameful. Anti-scientific, and anti-intellectual.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-11-2010 10:38 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-18-2010 1:47 AM BarackZero has not replied

  
BarackZero
Member (Idle past 4853 days)
Posts: 57
Joined: 10-08-2010


Message 99 of 177 (592027)
11-18-2010 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Nuggin
10-19-2010 8:56 PM


Re: Im sure you've been beaten up about this already...
Nuggin: So now, we have the tight rope walker with the 1/3 lb weight on one end of his balance bar and a couple helium balloons tied to the other.
BarackZero: Notwithstanding your strawman, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the Global Warming Scam, balance rods are sufficiently long and heavy that 1/3 of a pound would have absolutely NO impact on the tightrope walker.
Next:
Nuggin: Lastly, let's talk about your politics for a second.
What EXACTLY is the problem with reducing green house emissions?
BarackZero: EXCELLENT QUESTION. Thank you.
The answer is obvious. Leftists wish to control the lives of everyone, and in this case, reducing your energy usage 80% would result in a permanent depression of unprecedented proportions.
Why don't the EnviroWackos go first, hmmmm?
Nuggin with two successive pretensions:
Let's pretend that you are absolutely correct and that human CO2 has little effect on the environment. Further, let's pretend that even if we zero'd out emissions we'd still see a warming trend.
Okay.
So, what's the HARM in zeroing out emissions? What's the HARM in reducing the burning of coal, for example? What's the HARM in increasing free energy from renewable resources?
BarackZero: Asked and answered.
WHY do the very preachers of this doomsday scenario continue to globe trot day after day after day? Simply Google "environmental conferences" to see the list of parties attended by hypocrites who COULD but DO NOT videoconference.
Nuggin:
So, spin us a tale. What EXACTLY is the "worst case scenario" from cleaning up our act and cutting back on pollution?
BarackZero:
1. YOU SELL YOUR car.
2. Never again take a vacation.
3. Never again heat your home.
4. Never again cook your food.
5. No more hot showers.
6. Stay at home and watch the grass grow.
Have a nice life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Nuggin, posted 10-19-2010 8:56 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Nuggin, posted 11-18-2010 2:17 AM BarackZero has not replied
 Message 102 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2010 8:50 PM BarackZero has not replied
 Message 104 by frako, posted 11-19-2010 7:05 AM BarackZero has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 100 of 177 (592030)
11-18-2010 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by BarackZero
11-18-2010 1:06 AM


Inadequate: To be more accurate, you put those concentrations into a "perspective" that was dumber than a bag of hammers, and many people pointed out your silly mistake.
BarackZero responds:
To be "MORE" accurate you would first have to be ACCURATE.
You have not been. You resort to nothing but generalities and insults.
Shameful. Anti-scientific, and anti-intellectual.
Insults apart, do you have any actual reply to the point I made? You know, something with content?
I point out facts. You call me names.
Hmm ... I wonder which of us is right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by BarackZero, posted 11-18-2010 1:06 AM BarackZero has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 101 of 177 (592046)
11-18-2010 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by BarackZero
11-18-2010 1:14 AM


Re: Im sure you've been beaten up about this already...
Leftists wish to control the lives of everyone, and in this case, reducing your energy usage 80% would result in a permanent depression of unprecedented proportions.
Yawn. Frankly, your childish response to my post doesn't warrant a refutation.
Obvious you are either too immature to discuss the topic rationally or you spend too much time watching Fox News to be able to discuss it factually.
My money is on both.
1. YOU SELL YOUR car.
2. Never again take a vacation.
3. Never again heat your home.
4. Never again cook your food.
5. No more hot showers.
6. Stay at home and watch the grass grow.
Again, more childish blah blah.
My question was very specific. There is NO downside to America being OFF FOREIGN OIL. There is NO downside to America using renewable wind and solar energy rather than bulldozing mountain tops and putting mercury in the water supply.
Period.
You can rant and rave all you want about people not being allowed to go on vacation or whatever other crackpot ideas you have. Won't change the facts.
Edited by Nuggin, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by BarackZero, posted 11-18-2010 1:14 AM BarackZero has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 102 of 177 (592110)
11-18-2010 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by BarackZero
11-18-2010 1:14 AM


Re: Im sure you've been beaten up about this already...
Leftists wish to control the lives of everyone
Oh, naturally. That must be why we're passing laws against pornography, making drugs illegal, telling people where they can or can't build a mosque, and dictating the contents of the nation's school textbooks.
Oh, wait. That's not us doing any of those things at all, is it?
WHY do the very preachers of this doomsday scenario continue to globe trot day after day after day?
They're not. You're simply making things up, like your made-up notion that CO2 is measured in pixels.
Simply Google "environmental conferences" to see the list of parties attended by hypocrites who COULD but DO NOT videoconference.
I see a list of information about conferences, not any list of any individuals. Could you elaborate?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by BarackZero, posted 11-18-2010 1:14 AM BarackZero has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 103 of 177 (592143)
11-19-2010 12:46 AM


I've always wondered why conservatives are so against improving our technology to become less dependent on foreign oil. I mean... is there a reason why conservatives are so intent on sucking up to foreign oil companies? Is it written in the bible somewhere? Did jesus say "thou shalt depend on foreign oil"?

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by BarackZero, posted 12-10-2010 8:17 AM Taz has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 104 of 177 (592217)
11-19-2010 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by BarackZero
11-18-2010 1:14 AM


Re: Im sure you've been beaten up about this already...
1. YOU SELL YOUR car.
2. Never again take a vacation.
3. Never again heat your home.
4. Never again cook your food.
5. No more hot showers.
6. Stay at home and watch the grass grow.
1. Hows about i make my own wind and solar plant enough to power my house and sell excess power to the el. companies.
2. Hows abbout i buy a low polution car or modify mine to run on biodizel whit a bitt of tincering it runs better then on normal dizel cheeper polution natural
3. Hows abbout i partily heat my home trough colectors, "heat suckers"..., and the other part trough my own power from step 1
4. I grow moste of my own food not because it costs less but because it tastes better, and i can cook it on my own thanx to step 1
5. Hotter showers for longer periods free thanx to step 3
6. Hows about i use the money i save from not spending so much on polution oriantated technologies and i take a longer vaccaiton somewhere you cant afford.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by BarackZero, posted 11-18-2010 1:14 AM BarackZero has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 105 of 177 (592282)
11-19-2010 12:19 PM


BarackZero,
What do you think happens when you increase the amount of greenhouse gases in an atompshere? Do you trap more heat, less heat, or the same amount of heat? It's a simple question.

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by BarackZero, posted 12-10-2010 8:24 AM Taq has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024