Eternal Life (thanks, but no thanks)

Hi ModI ran across your post the other day and I must say that you do have a bleak perspective of the afterlife. Part of the reason I want to participate in this forum is to better understand the other side’s perspective — what different ways of looking at things do people have. In doing so, I hope to have a better understanding of what I believe and why. My point is that I realized I had never really thought about it before. I guess I took heaven for granted streets of gold, pearly gates, etc, etc as opposed to eternal suffering and torment — not a hard choice. But you brought up some excellent points that made me really think about it and wonder if eternal life really would be desirable? I don’t think I have good enough answers to convince you that you are wrong or that eternal life is desirable but here’s a couple things I thought of: Even though I too am a completely different person than I was when I was 18, I don’t see that person as dead, but the person I am now is the sum, or rather the product, of all the experiences I have had. I would not be the person I am today if not for the choices, good and bad, that I made then. I understand what you mean though, the things that are important to me then are not important to me now. I would not want to go back and re-live those days, so in that way that person is dead. But I don’t think I would be who I am today, for better or worse, except for who I was then and the things that happened since. So I expect that is the way the future will be, who I am will continue to grow and develop. That would be a horror! But the thing is that if God created us (and by that I mean only that if we have an immortal soul and are going to spend eternity in heaven, he has a vested interest in us regardless of whether he created us 6000 years ago or used natural processes ever since the big bang) so if God created ... or designed ... or intended us to be creative, rational, curious, relational creatures who have a free will and love to learn and change and grow, then why would he reward us with eternal life by turning us into stagnant, unchanging robots? That doesn’t make sense to me. I think we would retain the characteristics that make us human (except some of the bad things like selfish, greedy, violent, etc). If he wanted us to be robots why didn’t he just make us robots to begin with? What would make eternal life attractive? Well for me what I have imagined is the never ending pursuit of knowledge and understanding of this universe. Could you imagine being able to study and explore every inch of this universe and all its wonders? Could you imagine exploring a black hole or the inner workings of a quasar, being able to see the inner workings of a cell or actually witness chemical reactions taking place? There is just no end to the possibilities. Unless all this knowledge is just zapped into our minds (which would be boring) I would never get tired of learning and exploring. I have heard it estimated that it will take a million person-years to understand the human genome and how it all interacts and works together to make us human. How much more to understand the entirety of the universe? As mortal humans we are so limited in what we can do. If those restraints were lifted ... I would consider that immortality. Now, this senario may not appeal to everyone. When I bring up anything scientific to some of my friends you can see the glazed over look in their eyes. Spending eternity exploring and learning would be torment. But for me, I can’t imagine anything greater than an unrestricted ability to learn. I guess that’s how I imagine eternal life would be enjoyable. So, my final though is about time itself. Who is to say that time would even exist in the afterlife or that we would be aware of it. Time is a human understanding that we measure based on the cycles of nature — night/day, revolution around the sun, etc What if time was no longer measured in that way. It seems to me that it is precisely because of our mortality that we even care about time. We need to get here or there because our time is so limited and we only have so much time available. But what if time is no longer a restraint? Would it even matter? Maybe just like when you get busy doing something you enjoy and all of sudden you look up and say Wow, it’s been four hours! Where did the time go? maybe in the afterlife all of sudden you’ll think Wow, it’s been a billion years! It seemed like just a few minutes. I certainly don’t claim my answers are inspired and I don’t know for sure what the afterlife will hold but I hope you at least think my take on this is intriguing even if you’re not convinced.cheers

Hey Mod, sorry about taking so long to reply. So many things to do, such a finite amount of time to do them in. Maybe I could get a down payment on eternity and kinda sprinkle it around when I need it and Yea. You're right. It is very difficult (impossible) to really wrap our minds around the idea of eternity. Whatever timeframe can be thought of ... it is mearly a drop in the ocean of eternity. It makes me wonder if it is even possible. Maybe "eternity" really means something else - like "a really, really long time that we can't imagine how long it is", but that does end at some time. I don't know.Another curious thing about eternity is can it be one ended? In other words, if eternity has a beginning is it really eternity? The concept of God is that He has no beginning or end. Not something I can understand or explain - but fits the idea of eternal very easily. But, my soul had a beginning (or so I assume), so eternity for me is unidirectional. At some point will the beginning no longer matter and will there be eternity on either side of where I exist at that specific time? True. I guess I could percieve of exploration and learning occupying and exciting me for say, 100 trillion years, but that is a mere blip in eternity. Again, eternity is quite inconcievable, and thus part of the dilemma. Just to be clear, this isn't necessarily how I think it is. I would say that my "notion" is that the afterlife is a non-material exsitance (it can't be a material existance because our bodies are left here on earth to decay) but we often ascribe materialistic characteristics to it. Who could say that any of the laws of physics or time or space that we know even apply to the spirit world. My point is that perhaps time and space does not even exist in the afterlife. Does it have to?I understand why you have come to the conclusion of "thanks, but no thanks". Eternity does seem to create more questions and difficulties than it can provide answers and resolutions to. I always puzzle at the villians in movies who are trying to achieve immortality - why would you want to live forever? But I usually limit that thinking to living physically on earth forever ... not very appealing.I think the key to finding resolution in this topic is the character of the being that has given us eternal souls. There doesn't seem to be a possible naturalistic explaination for the soul and how it could live on after the physical body dies, so if we do have an immortal soul (and this thread assumes we do) it must have been given to us by a being that has the ability to give such a thing (a "higher power" if you will). So, if you don't trust the character of the being that gave us an eternal soul, how could you trust the outcome or the "reward" of that condition? I seriously don't mean that as a criticism or as a statement of "you just need to have faith". Its just how could any manner of debate and thought truly resolve an issue like this? Would you agree that there is a direct correlation between lack of trust in a supreme being and lack of satisfaction with the afterlife? I have to agree that there are some aspects of eternity that are not very appealing or at least very misunderstood and troublesome. But for me, I don't believe that God gave me an eternal soul and promised me eternal life only to make me miserable, bored and unhappy for all of eternity.Take care ...

I would have to agree. I can't make eternal life appealing enough to persuade someone to believe in God. And that is not what I was meaning. Indeed I think it is a poor method to use. It just doesn't work to say if you want and trust that eternal life is good - then trust and believe that God is good. That was my point ... that line of thinking is backwards. You put it well This is more where I stand, I guess. My 40 year old self that is alive here and now, really doesn't care what eternal life holds for me millions and millions of years from now. What matters is how I live NOW. What matters is the difference I make in the world NOW.The other problem with a "reward" system is that one single reward will not appeal to everone. For example, in my Zoology class, the instructor offered 10 points extra credit to anyone who attended a Natural Science Seminar that was being held. I have more than enough points already to get an A, so 10 bonus points had no appeal to me at all. What am I going to get an A++? So I needed a different motivation. My motivatiion was that I am going to have to give a lecture next Spring in a NSS so I wanted to see what it was like. I didn't even take the 10 bonus points. All the freshman in the class flocked to it - 10 points was more than enough incentive for them.Apparently I don't have a choice whether I have an eternal soul or not. If I did, I might choose to end the afterlife at some time of my own choosing, as you suggested. I don't think it works that way. If I (or we, as in humans) do have an eternal soul, we will not know 100% for sure until we die and then it may be too late. So I want to live my life now like it does matter what I do. How can I make the world a better place and how can I help make other people's lives better? Thats really what matters, right?Bottom line, I agree eternal life is not sufficient incentive to believe in God. Even if the alternative is eternal suffering, so what. What difference does it make to us now? I guess it is the same line of thinking you expressed earlier, that my present day self doesn't care what my future self will be. So I'll worry about my present self and just do the best I can. Glad we agree