Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Articulating In The Debates; The Proper And The Improper.
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 151 of 192 (592767)
11-21-2010 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by ringo
11-21-2010 2:01 PM


Re: Emotionally Detached Not Lack of Emotion
Ringo writes:
I wonder why Wal-Mart doesn't train its greeters to say, "What the fuck do you want, you bastard?"
Have you ever been to a high class Parisian restaurant?
Have a nice day.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by ringo, posted 11-21-2010 2:01 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Panda, posted 11-21-2010 9:21 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 152 of 192 (592770)
11-21-2010 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by New Cat's Eye
11-19-2010 3:14 PM


Re: Reason for the Choice
Pretentious?
Moi?
It means "adds a certain fucking something that I cannot for the life of me fucking pinpoint exactly what the shit it is I am talking about but you know what the fuck I am talking about anyway"
Is that more your style.....?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-19-2010 3:14 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-30-2010 12:50 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 153 of 192 (592777)
11-21-2010 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Straggler
11-21-2010 8:27 PM


Re: Emotionally Detached Not Lack of Emotion
Straggler writes:
Have you ever been to a high class Parisian restaurant?
...and ask for a bottle of ketchup.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Straggler, posted 11-21-2010 8:27 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Straggler, posted 11-21-2010 9:26 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 154 of 192 (592778)
11-21-2010 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Panda
11-21-2010 9:21 PM


Re: Emotionally Detached Not Lack of Emotion
Ahhh.
That was my mistake huh?
Should've asked for triple chilli kebab sauce instead obviously...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Panda, posted 11-21-2010 9:21 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 155 of 192 (592779)
11-21-2010 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by ringo
11-21-2010 7:28 PM


Re: Emotionally Detached Not Lack of Emotion
If somebody like hooah wants to be taken seriously, he needs to raise his own sights. Nobody will do it for him.
Well, he will or he won't. If he won't, presumably he has his reasons. How much longer does the thread have to be once Purple's said "maybe don't swear so much" and Hooah's said "fuck no"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by ringo, posted 11-21-2010 7:28 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Theodoric, posted 11-23-2010 10:30 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3896 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 156 of 192 (592795)
11-22-2010 1:06 AM


Testicles detached not lack of testicles?
Someone remind me, was it onifre who responded to some sort of personal remark anyone else might have said MYOB to with "go fuck your mother" ???
Whoever it was, Best. Use. Of Profanity. EVER.

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 157 of 192 (592807)
11-22-2010 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by crashfrog
11-21-2010 6:52 PM


Re: Emotionally Detached Not Lack of Emotion
quote:
I never said that we "take cues from those who are similar to us." That's not what I said at all.
It's a shame you don't bother to clarify.
crashfrog writes:
The Milgram experiment proves that most people will determine right or wrong based on cues from the people around them.
The people around us are usually similar to us. There aren't any nonverbal cues available through the internet. The information I found on the Milgram experiment dealt with following an authority figure. It didn't really deal with a debate situation. If I've tapped into the wrong experiment, please provide a link to the one that you feel makes your point.
quote:
I don't believe that I said that I did or didn't like it, did I?
That's why I asked. Your comments didn't really say anything.
quote:
Because you keep on deciding for other people when they should or shouldn't use profanity. There's nothing implied about it - you keep deciding for other people when they should or shouldn't use profanity, when in fact that's something only they can decide. They don't need you to decide for them.
Show me where I've done this. So far each time I ask you to show me where I've done what you claim, you don't show me anything. My position is that this forum is "mixed company" and an individual's rule of thumb for profanity in mixed company should be applied. Do you adjust your profanity when in mixed company? We've found out in this thread that some members don't consider this forum to be equivalent to a mixed group. Some don't even feel they are talking to people.
If an individual has no rule of thumb for mixed company, then their usage of profanity is bound by the forum guidelines. Ultimately, individuals have to decide who they wish to converse with whether they dislike the profanity in the post, lack of capitals, run-on sentences, or poor grammar.
quote:
It's precisely by that explanation that profanity is most likely to sell the point to those who view it as transgressive, because it indicates so much conviction that one must transgress the boundary against profanity to express it. That's a lot of conviction! People who are blase about profanity don't find it startling or convincing. They may not even notice its presence. But people who do find profanity offensive are far more likely to be convinced by it, because to them it indicates a substantial degree of conviction if one must transgress the boundary against profanity to express its extent.
People listening to the same message with mild profanity and then without do find the one with profanity more passionate and convincing. They didn't say whether they were listening to a man or a woman, but profanity serves men more than women concerning social power and acceptance. They also didn't run the test with more persuasive speech without profanity.
Use verb-driven language. By using verb-driven language, you will arouse a greater sense of action and motivation. Using these kinds of verbs will make your statement more convincing because your audience will engage their emotions, consciously and subconsciously. Verbs that are abstract or overused do not communicate excitement.
It may or may not have been perceived just as passionate. It doesn't show me that profanity is the only means to showing conviction or passion.
The next question (not necessarily for this thread) would be does mild profanity make people choose incorrect information over right information?
In a study on Sex Differences in Uses and Perceptions of Profanity, men and women agree that profanity shouldn't be used in mixed company.
Bottom line: We request (not demand) that people use capitals, punctuation, better sentences, etc., but people are made to feel they are out of line to request (not demand) a poster not to use profanity when responding to them. Why the difference?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by crashfrog, posted 11-21-2010 6:52 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by crashfrog, posted 11-25-2010 3:57 PM purpledawn has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 158 of 192 (593053)
11-23-2010 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by crashfrog
11-21-2010 11:33 PM


The poor dead horse
It has stirrup and whip marks all over him and they are still riding him.
Sweet Jesus, for the grace of god and all you hold dear, let the poor fucker die.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by crashfrog, posted 11-21-2010 11:33 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 159 of 192 (593077)
11-24-2010 4:44 AM


Emphasis or Anger
I found the responses on profanity fascinating. Hopefully both sides learned something. (I did, which is good given my other ID.)
We have to remember that in a written medium, the reader applies the emotion to what we write. The reader can't see our body language, facial expressions or hear our tone of voice. That's why authors use descriptive words to tell us what emotion to read into the words the character speaks.
This is what I've gleaned from the discussion. (Yes, this is only my opinion.)
For those who are offended by profanity.
If you've followed the discussion, you've hopefully learned that discriminate use of profanity is used for emphasis and not necessarily anger. In an adversarial situation one may be reading the wrong emotion into the comments. Try to discern the difference between use for emphasis and use for anger or personal insults. If profanity muddies the the point of the poster, ask nicely for clarification. Try to avoid assuming anger.
For those who use profanity.
Opponents who don't use profanity may read profanity as anger, especially the harsher sexual profanity. Studies have shown that while mild profanity may bring like minded people to feel your passion and agree with your point, it can have the opposite effect for people who aren't agreeable to your overall message and are offended by profanity. Indiscriminate use of profanity is annoying and gets old. The profanity loses emphasis.
Common sense tells us that if we don't like the way someone writes (just as with talking), don't converse with them.

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 160 of 192 (593256)
11-25-2010 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by purpledawn
11-22-2010 7:45 AM


Re: Emotionally Detached Not Lack of Emotion
The people around us are usually similar to us.
The "people around us" and "the people similar to us" are two completely different groups of people who may overlap only by coincidence. Please believe me when I say that if I had meant "people similar to us", I would have said "the people similar to us", not "the people around us", which actually is what I said.
Not the same thing. That's important, because it completely undercuts your point about using profanity making someone "different" than another person who doesn't. We take our cues from the people around us. If they're different than us, we still take cues from them.
Show me where I've done this. So far each time I ask you to show me where I've done what you claim, you don't show me anything. My position is that this forum is "mixed company" and an individual's rule of thumb for profanity in mixed company should be applied.
I don't understand how it is that you can ask me "where am I deciding for others when they can use profanty?" and then in the very next sentence you're providing your decision, on Hooah's behalf, about when he can or can't use profanity.
You want to know where you're doing it? How about in the text box where you're typing those messages, did you look there? Because that's where it's happening.
Do you adjust your profanity when in mixed company?
You mean, do I not swear in front of women? No, I don't "adjust my profanity." I don't live in the 19th century.
It doesn't show me that profanity is the only means to showing conviction or passion.
So if there are alternatives, profanity shouldn't be used? How on Earth could that be your decision to make for anyone else?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by purpledawn, posted 11-22-2010 7:45 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by bluescat48, posted 11-25-2010 4:51 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 162 by purpledawn, posted 11-25-2010 6:43 PM crashfrog has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 161 of 192 (593260)
11-25-2010 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by crashfrog
11-25-2010 3:57 PM


Re: Emotionally Detached Not Lack of Emotion
You mean, do I not swear in front of women? No, I don't "adjust my profanity." I don't live in the 19th century.
Some of those of the female persuasion, that I have heard, would make my drill sergeants (1968), blush.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by crashfrog, posted 11-25-2010 3:57 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 162 of 192 (593268)
11-25-2010 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by crashfrog
11-25-2010 3:57 PM


Understanding Through Discussion
quote:
Not the same thing. That's important, because it completely undercuts your point about using profanity making someone "different" than another person who doesn't. We take our cues from the people around us. If they're different than us, we still take cues from them.
Since you provided no link to the study or any additional information, I can't tell if what you are saying is what the study is saying or not. I really don't understand what you're saying my point is that is supposedly undercut.
quote:
I don't understand how it is that you can ask me "where am I deciding for others when they can use profanty?" and then in the very next sentence you're providing your decision, on Hooah's behalf, about when he can or can't use profanity.
You want to know where you're doing it? How about in the text box where you're typing those messages, did you look there? Because that's where it's happening.
Not very helpful. Just as before, no quotes and no links. Stating my position in a debate is not deciding for others or have you forgotten this is a debate forum?
quote:
You mean, do I not swear in front of women? No, I don't "adjust my profanity." I don't live in the 19th century.
No I asked if you adjusted your language for mixed company. That means the people around you can be women, seniors, children, people you don't know very well, a senior professional, etc. If you don't refrain from profanity or change your degree of profanity in a mixed group, then I guess that's your rule of thumb. Just say it.
quote:
So if there are alternatives, profanity shouldn't be used? How on Earth could that be your decision to make for anyone else?
I'm not making a decision. I'm having a candid discussion and I'm very disappointed. I though you of all people would have been able to have a candid discussion concerning profanity in a written debate forum.
You've resorted to the same tactics as the fundamentalist who have no evidence for their position of belief other than because they want to.
We can't have understanding through discussion if you're more concerned with saving the sacred cow.
You obviously don't want to provide any real information, so I'll bail before you get the urge to compare me to Satan's mother or ask if you can meditate for me so the scales can fall from my eyes and I can then understand the virtues of profanity.
Personally, I don't care what you personally do, Crash, as long as it's within forum guidelines.
Thanks for the go round Crash.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by crashfrog, posted 11-25-2010 3:57 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by hooah212002, posted 11-25-2010 7:27 PM purpledawn has replied
 Message 169 by crashfrog, posted 11-26-2010 12:05 AM purpledawn has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 163 of 192 (593274)
11-25-2010 7:16 PM


Oh god its not like god kills a kitten every time you utter a slightly profane word i havent read any profane sentence on this forum that would make me raise my eyebrow. And all of you make it sound that half of the people here are acting like these in the vido (after the 1st minute.)

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 164 of 192 (593278)
11-25-2010 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by purpledawn
11-25-2010 6:43 PM


Re: Understanding Through Discussion
People "tone it down in mixed company" when it carries serious repurcussions. For example : one would not curse in the presence of a senior vp of the company he or she works for because it may affect the work environment. It still seems as though you are placing members of this community in such a position. I don't see any of you as being important enough for anyone to curb their language. The only repercussion is lack of discourse because the opponent uses words you are uncomfortable with.
Another example would be why one wouldn't cuss around the senior members of their family. I would assume one would not do so because your parents would slap your mouth just because the words are labeled as bad. I use profanity around all of my family and have done so since i was 14 so maybe that's why I don't view it as actually being offensive language other than society saying it is offensive.

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by purpledawn, posted 11-25-2010 6:43 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by jar, posted 11-25-2010 7:33 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 171 by purpledawn, posted 11-26-2010 6:14 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 173 by ringo, posted 11-26-2010 10:53 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 165 of 192 (593284)
11-25-2010 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by hooah212002
11-25-2010 7:27 PM


Re: Understanding Through Discussion
hooah212002 writes:
People "tone it down in mixed company" when it carries serious repurcussions. For example : one would not curse in the presence of a senior vp of the company he or she works for because it may affect the work environment. It still seems as though you are placing members of this community in such a position. I don't see any of you as being important enough for anyone to curb their language. The only repercussion is lack of discourse because the opponent uses words you are uncomfortable with.
Another example would be why one wouldn't cuss around the senior members of their family. I would assume one would not do so because your parents would slap your mouth just because the words are labeled as bad. I use profanity around all of my family and have done so since i was 14 so maybe that's why I don't view it as actually being offensive language other than society saying it is offensive.
Fearful, weak people might do that.
Others tend to consider propriety and the feelings of others as well as what would be most likely to enhance communication.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by hooah212002, posted 11-25-2010 7:27 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by hooah212002, posted 11-25-2010 8:02 PM jar has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024